Lay down all your guns, Give them up and then move on.

30th May 2006 - Prishtina (KOS)
I've just woken up after a rather late night which lasted a good way into the early hours of this morning. After sightseeing in Prishtina during the daytime we got back to our hostel and allowed ourselves to relax since we'd done a fair bit of walking. I sat
outside in the as the dusk and chatted with some of the locals before I met an American guy called Jesse who is another inmate here at the Professor's prison. He decided to join Ray, Pascal and myself for an evening at the casino, so we all strolled down to it through the city's warm streets. With drinks and a buffet meal all free of charge it's definitely worth a visit, and I was pleased that some of the staff recognised me from my last visit in the winter. Given the financial constraints of my travel I wasn't in the mood for risking lots of money so played with just €10 the whole night, and by the time we left I'd made another €8, and probably eaten and drunken several times this amount too. It was good fun, and whilst we weren't spending much money, for some of the men working on reconstructing Kosova, this was where they spent a lot of their wages, constantly asking for another twenty or fifty Euros credit. It should also be noted that apart from the staff, unsurprisingly there wasn't a single local present.

Today we'll be going to Mitrovica, the infamous city that is divided by a river. One side is Albanian and the opposing side is Serbian. I've read so much about this place in books, newspapers and on the Internet, I'm so curious about what it will be like.

30th May 2006 - Mitrovica (KOS)
Currently I am sat at Mitrovica's bus station, the long afternoon shadows that seem to be such a serene feature of my time in Kosova falling everywhere. Close to me an old man sits wearing a
traditional Kosovan hat, one leg crossed over the other and a cigarette smouldering between his fingers, the smoke drifting directly upwards. There are thin clouds dotted throughout the air and with Pascal and Ray I sit amongst a small group of Kosovans who are waiting for the coach to Prishtina. Today I have experienced one of the most bizarre and surreal events I think imaginable. Inside I still feel quite shocked, but while I compose my thoughts I shall run through the set of events that brought me to be sat in the same restaurant as Adolf Hitler.

We left Prishtina by bus at 12.00, having been slightly delayed by brunching on spinach burek and cold yogurt in the centre of town. The journey to Mitrovica was relatively quick, lasting little more than an hour and offering me time to cast my mind back to the stories I'd come across concerning Mitrovica. It's portrayed as the archetypal divided town, a river running through the centre, dividing two sets of people who apparently hold nothing but hatred for each other. Whenever trouble kicks off in Kosova between Albanians and Serbs there's a fairly high chance that the story originated out of Mitrovica. But many cities have poor reputations, described as Hells on Earth, and they actually turn out to be thoroughly charming when visited in person. Would this be the case with Mitrovica or would the reports prove to be true?

Upon arrival we walked through the market and made our way straight to the city's most famous landmark, it's bridge. This bridge crosses between the city's two separate entities, the Albanians on one side and the Serbs on the other. As a result, the bridge has become the focal point for protest, drama and tragedy. It's heavily guarded and before you even reach it the scene is set by the ominous sign which reads "Malicious or provocative behavior shall be repressed immediately". Presumably because the situation had been relatively quiet recently the security wasn't too strict. I myself managed to walk backwards and forwards several times during the day without even one of the Romanian, Danish, French or Moroccan troops raising an eyebrow. I'm sure they must have an intelligence program, but how did they know that I wasn't smuggling guns into the Serbian part of the city? Seeing some of the Danish troops lounging out at a cafe in the sun really made me think that for KFOR ambivalence to the people they are dealing with is a way of life, and everything is just fine until something goes wrong.

Crossing over into the Serbian part of the city is like swimming out of an Albanian sea onto a Serbian island. Outside of this little capsule everybody speaks Albanian, flies the Albanian flag, pays with Euros and drives cars with Kosovan number-plates. He though, Serbian is the only language, the Serbian flag is prominent, Serbian Dinars are the currency and all the cars have Serbian number-plates. It really is like being in a suburb of Belgrade or Nis, even the architecture seems different. Cyrillic script is everywhere and signs of Albanian culture are invisible. It's absolutely strange, as though I left Kosova and was magically transported into Serbia. It also shows why Kosovan Serbs fear for their future so much. Their culture is so different to the Albanian one, and they are trapped inside an enclave, surrounded on all sides by a foe who they fear wishes to now destroy them. I do not wish to pick sides on this matter, since I pity the Serbs in such a situation, but can also understand why the Kosovans feel nothing but contempt for all of these overtly Serbian symbols, the same symbols that were present when the Serbian army came less than ten years ago and tried to destroy them.

We went and sat in a little cafe, which again was so Serbian. It's hard to explain how, but just those little touches, like the way the coffees are served, the interior of the building, the drinks on offer and obviously talking in Serbian and paying in Dinars. On a table opposite us was an American woman and a French woman, talking about some development program they were running. I would not wish to say I have some greater right to be in the Balkans, but at least I am here because I want to be here, because I love the culture and because I am fascinated by the people who are all so diverse yet at the same time also so homogeneous. Maybe I am judging these other Westerners too much, but I feel that their presence is ridiculous and shallow. They do this work as a profession, not because they want to improve the lives of the individuals. This is a sweeping statement, because I am sure that some of the people do genuinely want to help mankind, but from the conversation I was listening in on, I was shocked by the ignorance. Neither had any knowledge of either Serbian or Albanian and have come here earning excessive money while locals often live in poverty. Their program and plans are a job that seems so removed from the average Serbian or Albanian man. Yes, obviously their presence is beneficial in some respects, but is it only me who also sees it as somewhat patronising, as they come to the region with the belief that they are all messianic saviours with an understanding of the social dynamics limited to what they could find on Wikipedia.

After drinking up we strolled up to the church on top of the hill, an modern construction that is charming with its elegant brickwork and bronze domes. I got talking to two girls who were just sat enjoying the good weather and beautiful views. Both were Serbian university students, and since neither could speak a word of English I think Ray and Pascal were a bit jealous since I was the only person who could talk to these beautiful girls. The reason I felt so positive about them though was that given the situation of where they live, neither one mentioned a single word about politics. I remember a mirror situation earlier on in my trip when I spoke to two girls in Belgrade in the Kalemegdan fortress. On that occasion I kept having to tell them that my country, Britain, doesn't hate their country, Serbia, whereas on this occasion they were more interested in where I'd been, where I was going, what Zagreb is like as a city and what music I liked. They live in the Balkans' most politically charged city yet didn't mention a word about the problems, presumably because they are sick of living through it.

After talking with the girls for a while we waved goodbye and wished them all the best as we walked up to the monument that sits on top of the hill. It is an ugly construction, made of two concrete cylinders that support one more half-cylinder on top. What is it exactly? Socialist modern art? A rain catching water tower? An intentional eye soar for the Albanians who have to see it all the time from their part of the city? Whatever it's purpose, or lack of purpose, it must be a candidate for the World's Ugliest Monument, with graffiti daubed around its base and chunks of cement decaying off of it. On the way back down into the town, Pascal and Ray had a bit of a tiff. It centered around Pascal again bleating about the plight of the Quebec people, and making some comparison between Quebec and Mitrovica. Pascal is generally a good lad, but I wish he could see that if he keeps acting like a radical when talking about Quebec he won't attract any sympathy because it just alienates people who otherwise would have been sympathetic. Pascal's behavior and our encounter with the two Serbian girls really gave me a new impression of the Serbian minority in Kosova. Usually we only hear the words of fanatics who go out protesting and warmongers like Seselj. The girls we had met were the human face of Kosova Serbs, and just by being themselves they had shown that if Kosova gains independence then the thought of all of these people feeling so unsafe that they would all have to leave their homes to go and live in a refugee camp in southern Serbia is simply terrible. This can not be allowed to happen, but what alternatives are there? Maybe Kosova could be granted independence but Serbian Mitrovica could remain under the control of Serbia as part of Serbia?

We crossed over into the Albanian part of town and decided to try to fulfill a plan we'd been talking about for the last couple of days. When I was in Belgrade earlier in my trip, my kind host Sasa had recounted a story about a man who owns a restaurant, used to be in the Kosova Liberation Army and believes he is Adolf Hitler incarnate. At first I had thought that Sasa was just playing with me, having a joke at my expense, but he even showed me photos that seemed to verify his story. Was this all just an elaborate joke or was there some truth in it? Either way, I was in Mitrovica so I had to at least try my hardest to find out what was going on.

Sasa had told me the name of the restaurant, but unfortunately I couldn't remember it. Luckily I did remember that he also told me that it was close to the bridge. Ray and Pascal were in the mood for some fun also, so we agreed to split up for 20 minutes and each of us would go off in a different direction and see what we could find. We popped our heads into every restaurant, bar and cafe we could find but there was seemingly no luck. I was beginning to think that Sasa was just messing around, or that one of his friends had tricked him too. Maybe this whole Hitler story was an urban myth that existed in Serbia to try and makes Mitrovica's Albanians appear like insane neo-Nazis. It then came to me that if I was to go over to the Serbian side of Mitrovica I could use a Serbian phonecard which I had left over from when I was there and ring Sasa to ask him for some more information. Answering the phone, he seemed surprised to hear from me, especially given my location, but told me the name of the establishment and wished me good luck. We were searching for Jehona 2001, and apparently we'd been really close to it. While I'd been on the phone a scruffy, lanky guy with a shaved face and poor complexion had latched onto us and was talking to Pascal. After I finished on the phone I told Pascal to come with me and we walked back down to the bridge. The guy started to talk to me and I could see pretty quickly that he was tapping us up for money. He told me, in Serbian, that he needed money for his ill brother, but I just couldn't trust him. After he left us at the bridge I asked Pascal what he had said to him and Pascal told me that the guy had said he needed money for an operation on his stomach. No mention of a brother then? No. So it seemed to be a scam, and probably it was a scam, but what can you do other than pity this man. Where are the jobs for him? Where are the opportunities for him? Where is there a future for him?

We met back up with Ray and told him that we had the name, and jointly we decided that the easiest course of action would be to take a taxi since we were all tired and hungry so didn't want to trek around in the sun much longer. We found one close to the bridge and told the driver the name. He knew the place. It seemed as though things were going to work out. We drove through the streets for several minutes and arrived, realising that we'd been taken on the 'scenic' route since we were only one street away from where we'd got into the taxi. This didn't bother me though since something else had captured my attention. As we payed up we looked through our window and our glances were met be the stern glare of Adolf Hitler looking through the restaurant's window as he pulled back the net curtains. This could not be real surely? Were my eyes playing tricks on me? Apparently not, and as I looked at Ray and Pascal it seemed we were all thinking the same: This was a surreal experience beyond any others we had previously lived. We were walking into a restaurant in which stood history's greatest villain. The man whose name is synonymous with the greatest sins known to man. The man who had apparently been dead for over sixty years but it now seemed had been hiding away, keeping himself to himself in Mitrovica. At this point my grasp on reality was lost and it slid away into a dreamlike puddle where nothing made complete sense and was instead a confusing blur.

It was a seedy little restaurant with dark wood panels on the wall, upon which were hung photos of the proprietor from when he served in the UCK. They showed him with another fellow who looked like a member of the Taliban in a red jeep which had been converted to carry a gun on the back. Hitler stood there, posing for the camera in his special uniforms which further reinforced the similarities with his historical idol. The shock though was that these hadn't been taken in Germany during the 1940s, instead they were from fifty years later in the depths of the Balkans. The man shown in the photos sits at a table across the room from us, glancing untrustingly at us as we ordered our drinks from the waitress. There is another waiter and a cook who pokes his head out into the restaurant every now and again. They all seem very nervous by our presence, but this is not surprising seeing as the place is hidden in a little backstreet and is meant only for locals. We had just turned up in the back of a taxi, speaking in English and given what we were faced with we too were also acting weirdly. Ray and myself are trying to keep straight faces as our lower jaws quiver, while Pascal seems to look scared by the place he finds himself. How can I not laugh though, this man does not just have a resemblance to Hitler, he is a replica of him, or a clone, or maybe he actually is Hitler. My mind goes off for a walk, I start to wonder whether Hitler fled Berlin in 1945 and traveled down to Kosova to hide away for some time and has been using a special potion made by the Nazis to remain forever young and this makes me think of the Indiana Jones film where the Nazis are trying to find the Holy Grail which has the power to grant eternal life... Back in the moment. The lights have gone off and the German music has slowed down and drifted out. It's a power cut. The waitress has come over to sit with us, and has started talking to us. She keeps grinning at us in a somewhat inane way. What does she want. After a while she gets up and Ray tells us that she'd been stroking his leg under the table. Then he has to cut off suddenly as she returns. She asks if anyone will by her a drink, looking at Ray in particular. He's in a position where he can't say no, so off she trots to get herself a juice and then she comes back. She's being really blatant now with her seduction techniques towards Ray, and he just looks confused. One moment she's telling him how he's so handsome, but then the next she is saying how she hates all Serbs and hopes they all die. I'm now feeling slightly out of my depth too at this point. What can I say? The lights come back on, the tape player jumps back into action and the music begins again.

The waitress brings our food over and then sits down again. She's like a crazy teenager as she flirts with Ray, while he remains the gentleman, offering polite replies which mask the unease he now feels too. As all of this is transpiring every so often Adolf Hitler looks across at us. He spotted our cameras when we took some photos and send the waiter over to tell us not to. He knows our game and is making sure we don't get an opportunity to get a picture of his face. Some other customers enter and it's clear that they're locals to the place as their give the Nazi salutes to Hitler. Yes, it's time to go, we've seen enough so we ask for the bill. It's not a normal receipt though, that would have been too normal. Instead it's got a little Swastika just for effect. Deciding that it would be our only chance, we asked the waitress if she would ask Hitler if we could have a photo with him, and she came back with the reply that it would cost each of us €5. Forget it Adolf, there's no way we're giving you any extra money.

Saying our farewells to the waitress, leaving her to rue what might have been with Ray, and left 1941 Germany to reenter modern day Mitrovica. Many questions lingered with me but one in particular was where Hitler managed to get his hair cut? It sounds silly, but think about it, does he go into the barber's with a photo of Hitler and say "Just like this please"? Going past a lovely looking mosque, we got down to the market, doing some browsing and speaking to the friendly vendors. They really warmed to Ray, several of them repeating the phrase "I love America". Well, it looks like this is the one place on earth where people will willingly admit this, and even more strikingly, in the shadow of a mosque. Yes, this honestly has been a surreal day. With one more coffee in us, enjoyed at a very normal cafe, we ambled along to the bus station. I can't imagine that anywhere else I visit on this trip will be any stranger than Mitrovica, a city which has shown so many different face. It is certainly not the Hell on Earth that some would wish us to view it as, but it is without doubt a confused city that doesn't function properly and for the moment shows no sign of change. What will the future hold for people here? I really can not answer, but would wish all the best to the charming Serbian girls and matey Albanian market guys who we were lucky to have met. As for Hitler and his bigoted waitress? I'm just confused, but who wouldn't be?

155 thoughts:

Ed said...

Without using google, any ideas which song the title for today's post came from?

Take care,
Ed.

Anonymous said...

Very interesting post Ed, thanks!

An interesting disparity that I noticed on the bridge sign, in English it says "repressed" while in Albanian it says "punished". I wonder what the Serbian version says.

jo domosdoshmerisht said...

The Nazi whore drinking juice with a smile! Dude, I would peddle this story around. It looks like something Rowan Atkinson would be interested in!
As for the Hitler dude, I've heard that the mine in Mitrovica is dangerous to the health, but I always assumed they mean, physically. The giant Phi and Adolphus proved me wrong. It is mentally!!

Anonymous said...

the hitler thing was pretty funny. come to think of it this whole mitroviza situation reminds me of belfast.

michelle said...

Lolita is a great book!!!!!!!! What do you mean don't bother? You should read it more than once. I've read it several times and everytime i read it i notice something new that I've never noticed before. It's clever that way.
Animal Farm and 1984 remind me of certain countries and people...

xenspirit3 said...

On the confusing behaviour of the waitress: Her tactic was sexual abuse...she was exercising power over Ray while abusing him verbally. This is very classic sexual abuse by coercion.

I know these signs, as I am a survivour of sexual abuse... Women do commit these acts against men, and their techniques are similar to those of males who coerce and play mind games on their victims to make them think they want the abuse as well.

Yakima_Gulag said...

Just a word on why no locals in the Casino, Muslims don't gamble. It's forbidden along with interest, as a sort of un-earned money.
The Hitler themed restaraunt was tooooo wierd.
As to 'repressed' it's probably supposed to be 'supressed'.
Ray is really obviously American with the belly pack thing! :)
As to Belfast-Mitrovica comparisons, I can't go there, the situations had their similarities, but Mitrovica at least sometimes has sunshine!
As to Lolita, it's satire,and actually a very good book, once you realize it is satire.

Owen said...

Another fasciniating episode in the saga!

bytycci said...

To Yakima
While I'm impressed with your knowlegde of Muslims rules, I am also impressed by your lack of knowledge of Kosovar Albanians.

If it was only up to their 'Muslimness' they would be the greatest gamblers in the world.

May be the reason why they don't go to that Casino is the high rate of unemployment ;) (poverty).

Indeed, another type of gambling is very popular in Kosova (as throughout the Balkans), sports betting. It is cheaper.

Ed.
good post. Although I don't agree with some of your statemts. The culture indeed is not so different, as these people have been living together for centuries.

The ugly monument is a socialist monument to the miners. It was not built to annow the Albanians. But the new church on top of the hill was indeed built purposefully on top of that hill to annoy the Albanians. (Who cares anyway!)

The hitler thing is really weird. I had heard of this guy while I was in Kosova. I doubt he is a neo-Nazi. He charges everyone 5$ to take a picture with him. That's not what an ideologically driven person would do, is it?

Also, I am pretty surprised that you assume that any person with a beard is Taliban-like. The Taliban in fact had/have rules regarding their beards, and you should read about them :)

Ed said...

Anon,

My translation of the Serbian 'kažnjeno' would be also be 'punished' like in the Albanian.

Take care,
Ed.

Ed said...

Jo domosdoshmerisht,

Hmmm... I'm not sure whore is the right word, I think that's a bit harsh. As you know, unemployment is quite high in Mitrovica, so a job is a job. She saw my travel companion Ray as an oportunity for some fun and tried to seduce him. To be fair to her, she was well aware of the absurdity of the place in which she worked.

I'm sure, if you could get his trust, you could make a great documentary about Mitrovica Hitler.

Take care,
Ed.

Ed said...

Anon,

Shame on me, despite being born in the United Kingdom, I've never got around to going to Belfast. I had considered it last summer after I got back to England, but instead settled for riding the waves off the Pembrokeshire coast.

Take care,
Ed.

Ed said...

Michelle,

I know Lolita gets a lot of praise, but I really felt as though I'd wasted my time reading it. My girlfriend absolutely loves it and pestered me into reading it, but yea... I wasn't convinced. I found it self indulgent and yet at the same time also superficial.

Each to their own though, I like plenty of books that I know other people aren't fussed by. I do have a bit of a style that I'm into with literature, and Lolita just didn't fit into it.

As for Animal Farm, I loved it. Nineteen Eighty-Four, also loved it, apart from the huge piece of political thought embedded in the middle, which although interesting didn't seem to fit with the style of the rest of the book. My favourite Orwell, and my favourite book for that matter, is Homage to Catalonia. It's fantastic!

Take care,
Ed.

Ed said...

Xenspirit3,

I'm really not sure she was abusing him, I think she was just trying to flirt with him and was being too obvious in it, hoping that as a rich westerner (Ray seemed pretty well off from what I remember) he would maybe fall in love with her and offer her a future outside of Adolf's restaurant. Or maybe, alternatively, she was just having some fun because we were probably the strangest visitors that had come into the restaurant for quite a while.

I'll add you blog to my links list.

Take care,
Ed.

Ed said...

Yakima,

'Belly-pack'? I've not come across this phrase. Sorry to sound silly, but what does it mean?

Apparently rain is fashionable now though- Northern Ireland is the UK's fastest growing holiday region at the moment.

Take care,
Ed.

Ed said...

Owen,

It is indeed a saga. I'm determined to finish it at some point... somewhen!

Take care,
Ed.

Ed said...

Bytycci,

When I said that the monument was built to annoy the Albanians I said this with some sarcasm, I wasn't being serious. But I'm glad that you pointed out about the church having been put there for that specific reason, it makes sense. You must admit though, the monument to the miners is especially ugly.

I think the Hitler guy is ideologically driven. He wasn't advertising photos for five euros, we had to get the waitress to ask. He seemed annoyed that we were even in his restaurant but probably liked the fact that we were spending money.

And again, I was joking again when I said the other chap in the photo was in the Taliban. I was just contrasting the stereotypical image of Muslim fighters that now exists in western society, the beard being a prominent feature, with the fact that Adolf Hitler is also present.

Take care,
Ed.

Anonymous said...

I agree that the monument is ugly. Like most socialist monuments. Haha.

But, here is something I know would happen. The Serbian nationalist racist site Serbianna and that racist woman Julia Gorin, were too quick to write about this. Yeah! You were quoted my friend. Understandably, they added their twist to the story!

That's why I was critisicing you about the use of the word 'Taliban'.

And, I don't think advertising would be something that that guy would do. 1. It would be a waste of money, cos nobody would care to have a photo with him. 2. He wants to make money of people (like you) who would have a photo with him, just for the heck of it.

bytycci

Owen said...

Bytycci, if Serbianna are visiting Ed's blog perhaps there's still hope that a bit of openness and honesty will penetrate that toxic miasma.

Anonymous said...

Owen, Bytycci,

I doubt it. So Serbiana took my post after a woman called Julia Gorin wrote about it on her right-wing website. She misquotes me and describes me as being 'clueless', giving the impression that I'm some silly bufoonish tourist pottering around eastern Europe who has blidly chosen to write KosovA instead of KosovO simply because I don't realise any better.

She utterly misses the sarcasm when I say that the other UCK fighter looks like a Taliban fighter, instead implying that I actually think he is a Taliban fighter.

Best of all, since I don't actually have any photos of the Hitler impersonator since he wouldn't let us take his photo without paying, she just added her own photo of some comedian dressed up as Hitler, which for the unknowing reader implies that this was the person who I met! Ridiculous!

I didn't give either website permission to use my photos either. Can I stop them in anyway? I wouldn't usually care, but on this occassion I feel a bit annoyed in the way I've been misrepresented to anyone who doesn't then go and click on my website and read everything in context.

Take care,
Ed.

observer said...

Ed,

You maintain the rights to your photographs so you should let them know that they are being used without your permission...

About this woman quoting you, her writings appear to be nothing more then rants which paint everyone in the region as fascist, except of course her friends in the Serbian Radical Party.. Ironic, to say the least. And, I don't think anyone would take an author like that very seriously, so don't worry too much about it...

Yakima_Gulag said...

@bytycci, I just love how you want to make me out to be some class of anti-Albanian, Just so you know my other regular flamers are Serbs.

@Ed, I noticed Julia Gorin's article, my other regular flamer Blackbird said I should read her stuff. Frankly I don't like anyone on Ariana Huffington's whole site, I can hear all the neo- con crappola I want, including on Balkans subjects for no effort on the local propaganda organ of the right wing lunatics, K.I.T. radio. So obviously I don't need her input. I thought it was most rude of her to call you 'clueless'.

A belly pack is a fanny pack worn in front. They are ugly but practical containment units for money, documents and other small easily lost or stolen items that can ruin your life by their absence.

In general, to whoever may care, the Yakima Gulag can't rival Kosovo or any other Balkans place as to unemployment, but we have a lot of casinos in the general vicinity,(the best one for entertainment and food is run by the Yakama Nation, it's called Legends Casino' it's in Toppenish and there's no alchol, you pay for your food, it's a buffet and it's 'all you can eat' and very good food, you can gamble or not, Indians are big gamblers.) and most people here are at least nominally Christian. Often vehemently right wing Christian. The ones who don't realize that the Bible ALSO prohibits gambling, and interest, go to them (that would be most of them!)especially the poor of a catagory I call 'trailer-trash Republicans' namely the people with big dogs, big trucks with big wheels, and small dicks and smaller brains and yet smaller wallets go to the casinos in droves!
There they eat the 'free food' and after eatting it, since there is no 'something for nothing' they gamble.
I personally don't go to casinos to gamble. it doesn't take a lot of education to realize that
1. the House always wins
and 2. poor people shouldn't gamble if they'd like to keep from getting poorer.
The absence of Albanians therefore, is a sign of the greater intelligence of poor Albanians as compared to poor Americans!

Ed said...

Observer,

Thanks, I sent Julia Gorin an email and I'm now waiting to see what reply the gentle woman will give me.

With people such as herself, it doesn't really bother me because the type of person who reads a website such as hers has already made up their mind as to what they think on subjects such as Kosova. They don't read them to inform themselves, rather to somehow self-congratulate themselves on the views they already have.

Take care,
Ed.

Ed said...

Yakima,

Oh, were you refering to the guy in the photo with me in front of all the cigarettes? That wasn't Ray, that was one of the market salesmen! Just for referenence, you can see a photo of Ray stood with myself and Pascal on the bridge in Prizren in my previous post.

With regards to the casino, the only times I've gone have been when I'm in Prishtina, it's a bit of fun, nothing more. And we're talking about using small amounts also, never more than 10 euros over a night, and every time I've finished up at the end of the evening.

Take care,
Ed.

Owen said...

Ed, not only has she not respected your rights in your own photographs, she's also behaved unprofessionally in mingling your hijacked content with her own materials, in particular her own Hitler picture.

She's behaved in a pretty abusive way towards you and you're entitled to be very angry. I guess that's the sort of thing you'd expect from someone who expresses herself in the way she does.

I'd submit a measured complaint to Huffington Post about the photographs. It's their reputation such as it is that's on the line. I think you'll be waiting a long time for a meaningful apology from Gorin.

Ed said...

Owen,

Did something appear on the Huffington Post? I thought it was Gorin who came across this first of all? I'm confused.

As you said, I would never hold my breath for an apology, given the contempt that people like Gorin and those at Serbiana hold for people like you and I, would at least like the photos/story removed since they are using my work and utterly misrepresenting it. Furthermore, as you said, hijaking it.

So how did this all begin? I love the way that I seem to be the last person to come across a story written largely by myself!

Take care,
Ed.

bytycci said...

Yakima,
I am not flaming you, and I am not trying to make you out to be some class of anti-Albanian. I simply said that because there are no locals in the casino, it doesn't mean that they are following Muslim rules.

You seem to have a romanticized view of Muslims as pious people who follow all the rules of the religion. You know that's not the case.

And, you denifinetaly can't explain Albanian behaviour based on what you know about Muslim rules.

This is all I was trying to say.

Ed
Julia Gorin wrote on Huffington Post. Everything she writes is disgusting so I wasn't surprised to see how she treated you and your photographs. I would suggest you write to Huffington Post and Serbianna, and that you also write a post on your blog about this whole thing. That's my humble suggestion.

Best

Anonymous said...

The place has been called "Kosovo- Metohija" for centuries. "Kosovo" translates in Serbian to "Field of Blackbirds" and "Metohija means “land owned and governed by monasteries”.

So your statement about Serbs "building a church there just to aggravate Albanians" is ridiciculous, given that even place's name refers to it being "church land". Perhaps this this is at least one reason why Julia Gorin referred to you as "clueless"!

WARchild said...

Hi Clueless Ed,

Congratulations! for making it into Julia Gorin's first post on Huffington. The first is a self-labeled neocon and the second is a "progressive" publication. This is probably a first on American rant press. You see, last week some friend of Gorin called John Edwards a faggot at a major conservative convention. Now American right and left seem to have made up. How does this relate to Mitrovica and to my fellow Nazi compatriot? I have no idea. One thing I know is that I won't be able to browse comedy section on Penthouse now that I know that Gorin writes there too.

I believe I asked her once back in the days when she was still being published if she had visited the place she was commenting about. She said she was joking - I never got them.

Her fellow Jewish conservative responded to her lies.

The Mitrovica Nazi was hilarious. I had no idea he existed. Who knows, maybe this story will get more tourists to visit impoverished Mitrovica.

In a way, Gorin was right. "Bridge watchers," a Serb paramilitary, was probably watching you out of Dolce Vita cafe across the bridge and reporting you to HQ while you were clueless. The area immediate to the bridge on both sides is a "neutral area". Go further and be your age and you could be in trouble.

Owen said...

Peace, Bytycci and Yakima Gulag, you're both excellent and decent-thinking people!

Ed, go to Yakima Gulag where you can get the link to the Huffington Post article.

And consider getting the Gorin treatment an honour!

Marginalna Društvena Kronika said...

Interesting post. Concerning "Hitler from Mitrovica" only what I can say is that man is lost in the space and time. That is terrible! Lijep pozdrav iz Hrvatske! Salute from Croatia! :)

observer said...

Ed!

Your picture of the Nazi guy's bill is now in Jutarnji List, along with an article about a certain Britanski bloger!

http://www.jutarnji.hr/cudne_vijesti/clanak/art-2007,3,9,hitler_kosovo,65660.jl

Ed said...

Bytycci, Owen, Warchild, Observer,

I sent an email to Gorin and left a comment on her 'article' at Huffington Post.

On the other hand, it's pretty funny really, and as Observer pointed out, I've now had a little article written about my experience on the Jutarnji List website (in their 'Strange News' section!).

Jutarnji did describe me in a positive light rather than as the buffoon that Gorin would have had people believe. And hey, the hit counter might be up tomorow!

Take care,
Ed.

Ed said...

Marginalna Društvena Kronika,

It really was a bizarre experience, although given the interest people are showing in it, maybe I should propose that I offer trips to his cafe for western tourists, we can share the profits! I'm joking, but it's funny how Hitler still manages to really make people stand up and feel disgusted. I wonder who the next person will be that will provoke this reaction in people. Most of us hate George Bush, but I think we'll forget about him in a few years and just remember him as an idiot rather than the personification of evil, as is the case with Hitler.

I added your blog to my link list.

Cuvaj se,
Ed.

Borna said...

Hi Ed!
Its Borna,and I cant believe i had to find out about your blog from my newspapers!
When are u comin to Zg again?

Ed said...

Borna,

Mozda cu doci na kraju mjeseca, ali nisam siguran jer skoro iman ispite na faksu. Vidjet cemo, ali jako bih zelio doci i ostati... zivot u london je grozan, prljan i naporan!

Ako ne budem dosao sada, naravno cu biti u zagrebu posljie ispita.

Cuvaj se,
Ed.

Owen said...

Ed, if you don't assert your rights in your photos and writing you may find anyone doing what they like with them. I suggest that at least you register your objection to reproduction without permission.

It's not to easy to find the contact point at Huffington Post but you could try a message to permissions@huffingtonpost.com - they're the people it says to contact if you want to republish their materials. And I suggest you inform Gorin that you want an explanation why she has republished your photos without permission (I suspect the convention is that text material from a blog is considered public domain, I'm not sure though) and that she must not repeat.

You may not get anywhere, but if you make a fuss she'll hopefully think twice before trying it again.

Owen said...

Ed, make sure you read the Stephen Schwartz article that Warchild's given you a link to - it's an absolutely devastating refutation of Gorin and her nonsense.

Ed said...

Owen,

I'm at home studying today, so am alerted to emails instantly, hence my quick reply here!

I just wrote an email to Huffington Post, explaining the way in which given her description of me I object to her using my photos and also adding her own ones at liberty to give the impressin that they are related to mine (the Hitler shot). So, now I'm just waiting to hear back from them. I think they'll have to remove them now that I've said this.

I read that article earlier when Warchild posted the comment. It really does pull Gorin to pieces and shows that most of what she says in innaccurate (a trait of her work it now seems) right-wing rhetoric.

What a silly woman.

Take care,
Ed.

observer said...

More on Gorin...

http://www.electronic-research.com/tko-je-ta-julia-gorin-da-pljuje-po-hrvatskoj/

Anonymous said...

Oh yes, do read Stephen "Ahmad Suleyman" Schwartz and how he is attempting to steal Christian land for Islam. Schwartz is a Muslim convert and apologist posing as a Jew! Just perhaps that's why Julia Gorin finds Schwartz so objectionable-- and the feeling seems to be mutual.

You can object to the publications that Julia writes for, but many are the same media outlets for which Schwartz once wrote, but where he is no longer welcome.

Seesaw said...

Yet another interesting post, with good photos.

Nikola said...

You want an independant albanian kosovo yet you link to Americans for Serbia? Have you heard of the word 'consistency'?

Ed said...

Observer,

It's amazing, I'd never heard of Julia Gorin before last night, now I've spent a good part of my day reading about her. I don't like her.

Take care,
Ed.

Ed said...

Anon,

As I just said, before last night I had never knowingly come across Julia Gorin or Stephen Schwarz. With regards to their personal argument, I know niether well enough to comment on their personalities, but I must say that the rebuttle given by Schwarz against Gorin's claims that fundamental Muslims were widespread in Kosova (check the link in an earlier comment here) was well written and very convincing. He showed how many holes there were in her work.

I myself have now personally been on the wrong end of her inaccuracies as she selectively copy-pasted portions of the post I made here and did not seek permission whatsoever, instead prefering to depict me as a fool who has no grasp of what was truly around me.

I do not agree with Gorin's rhetoric, but she is entitled to believe what she wishes to believe. That is her business. My biggest gripe is that she chose to write about me, use my personal photos and then add in ones randomly taken from the internet. If you read her article it gives the impression that the photo of Hitler that she shows is the person I met. This is very misleading. She is using poor techniques and is too prone to just googleing to make articles full of shock but empty of substance.

Take care,
Ed.

Ed said...

Seesaw,

Thanks, it's caused a bit of a fire though hasn't it!

Take care,
Ed.

Ed said...

Nikola,

I want an Independent Kosova, not an independent Albanian Kosovo as you describe it. It should be for all people there, and the protection of human rights on all sides must be a prerequisite.

Whilst I support Kosovan independence, this is not the reason that my blog exists. It's meant to cover the whole of the Balkans. And while I was living in Croatia there were a lot more posts local to that. At the moment, Kosova is the region's main story so it is unavoidable that I speak about it.

So yes, I am pro-independence but I am not anti-Serbian. If you check the links list there are blogs from all over the Balkans, and just as I have linked to pro-independence blogs I link to Americans for Serbia because, whilst this sounds very grandios, I believe in freedom of speech. Let people read all of the arguments and make their own minds up. I don't only read blogs from Kosova, I also read Serbian, Croatia, Bosnian and Slovene blogs. These have all shaped my opinions and this is why I write what I write. I don't agree with much that Americans for Serbia says but I think that while it exists it should be available for people to check. That is therefore why it is on my links list. Okay?

Take care,
Ed.

Marginalna Društvena Kronika said...

Yes indeed, it is funny how Hitler still manages to really make people stand up and feel disgusted, and I believe that is this great, because people know who he was and what horrifying thinks he make.
- Concerning G.W.Bush I agree, we will remember him like an idiot, perhaps like an evil idiot. hehehe... Thanks because you added my blog into your link list. :)

bytycci said...

Ed.
It's good that you wrote them. I hope they will do something (write an apoogy or smth).

Owen,
there is no war between me and Yakima. I respect her. I was just clarifying my position.

Novosađanka said...

Oh boy..... I found you through Serbianna, where a link about Kosovo took me. You've written so much, there's no way I can go that far back and read all of it, although it sounds interesting. It's always good to see how the Balkans look to the outside world, although it's not like I don't already know it,what's more, I live in it.

I have to admit that, although I believe both Serbia and Kosovo would be better off without each other, your constant use of Kosova does hurt my ears. You must know, there are some words that trigger really bad associations in the Balkans. Different words for different people. Off course, Kosova is Albanian for Kosovo, however, in recent years this version was used largely by militant separatist groups and their supporters, and does not resonate well even with the most objective Serbs, just as the full version of "Kosovo and Metohija" incites hate in Albanian population in Kosovo. Try and call it Kosmet or Kosovo i Metohija while you're there, and I guarantee you won't be coming home that day. If you feel like it, do some research on it and you'll know why. The history of the region is very complicated, and you need to know a lot about it in order to be able to draw impartial conclusions. Let's just say this: the most politically correct term at this time is Kosovo, as it is used in the UN resolution, the document currently in force. Now, you may not want to be politically correct, but I got the impression that while supporting independence, you are attempting to be somewhat impartial.

Regarding the independence: there is no such thing as supervised or conditional independence. It's diplomatic lingo, and we all know it. The outcome will be independence. Being Serbian myself, I know that we had many many chances to keep Kosovo an integral part of our country (without bloodshed) and failed miserably. I also know what our government did to Albanians, and what Albanians did to Serbs in Kosovo, many times over, back and forth. I know that regardless of what passionate nationalists think, as long as we carry Kosovo like a rope around our necks,and believe it to be the uber-defining part of our national identity, Serbia will never move forward and Serbs will never live normal lives. When independence kicks in, I hope they put up a barb wire along the borders, so we can't have anything to do with each other for at least 70 years, until all those who believe in ethnic cleansing have died.... and yes, there were such actions on both sides, only Serbian actions were sanctioned by the state. I hope someone, somewhere, will keep a close eye on Kosovo though, because, mark my words, Kosovo is yet to become a huge problem for Europe and probably for the States as well ( although currently it quite nicely serves American "national interests"). Just as some other formerly friendly middle-eastern countries did. It already is a major drug smuggling, sex slave and arms trafficking route. Just wait and see. But that was off topic. Sorry this reply was so long.

If you don't mind, what are your reasons for supporting independence? I'm kind of hoping they make sense to me, so that I can deem you an independent thinker.

Novosađanka said...

And, here's a link to a documentary that talks very objectively about the lives of Serbs in Kosovo ( you can find many clips and additional films about Kosovo by this author on the net). It is curious that only recently SPC and the government picked up the distribution, and for 8 years this man has been doing it on his own, voluntarily, without any recognition. The problem was, off course, that he would not take sides. He picked his topic - Serbs in Kosovo, and went with it, refusing to blame only 1 side ( Serbian government or international community) for the horofic conditions these people live in and daily tortures they are exposed to...Instead, he blamed both. That's why nobody wanted to pick it up until recently.But since you talked about those 2 girls, this is very good material for finding out about the horrors of these poor people. Yes, something must be done to make sure they can live normally once it's all over.

http://www.daysmadeoffear.com/dvd.html

Thinking Croat said...

You comprehension skilss are rather low, aren't they?

I am not talking about this post in particular, but your whole attitude towards Kosovo problem. Kosovo is not some country which "somekind of imperial Serbia" occupied and now it has to fight for its ndependence.

It's place where Serbian nation and state was born in the earliest days of nation's history..a place where heroic battle against the Turks was fought with all serbian medivial nobility dying there.

It's a region that Serbian finally retained from the Turks in 1912 as Turks left the Balkans.

And not even then were Albaians the majority there even though they were present there. They became majority on Kosovo after ww2 and after many Serbs left the province due to its poor economic status, and many Albanians from neighbouring Albania came there. Also, the Albanians had extremely big fertility rates.

Besides, Albanains already have their home-nation.

Chinesee in Englad can ask the independence in the same way then...


Albanina rebbelion against the Serbia is the same thing that Sebr did against Croatia in 1991.

We may feel gloat over the fact that Serbs are getting some of their own medicine, but we're also bound to tell the truth.

Nation's sovereignity comes first.

Owen said...

State sovereignty isn't just about unfettered authority within national boundaries, it's about responsibility towards the nation's citizens as well.

You might find the following helpful in understanding what the concept signifies today: http://www.un.org/Pubs/chronicle/2004/issue4/0404p16.html
and
http://www.iciss.ca/report-en.asp

Anonymous said...

FREE KOSOVO!

Thinking Croat said...

Oh come own Owen..you never lived in Yugoslavia...you just don't know the background of this conflict.

"it's about responsibility towards the nation's citizens as well."

Yugoslavia, and Serbia had more than enough responsibility toward Kosovo..Albanians are the ones who demanded independence ever since..by the 1974 constituton they got substantial autonomy, yet even that was not enough for them. After President Tito's death they've startred uprisings and unrest in 1981...

Sure Milosevic was criminal and he abolished the autonomy for them, but did you know as well that albanians proclaimed their "independence" after Yugoslavia started to fall apart.

They started to boycott serbian institutions, opstructing them.
They refused to vote in serbian election...had they voted, Milosevic would have been dethroned long before 2000....

They are guilty nothing less than Serb nationalist who voted for him...

Anonymous said...

I've glanced through your blog and have to say - that the travel part of it is interesting and all that - but your political observations are not worth those 2 pence. Slovenia is not that far from Croatia (as Croatia is from Bosnia) - because of their prime minister or because they "put the other countries to shame" - you remember that little war that was waged in Ex-Yu? Well, a whole lot of it happened in Bosnia, quite a bit in Croatia and almost nothing in Slovenia. Given the fact that it does take some time to recuperate from war damages and all that nonsense - no wonder that Slovenia turned up ahead (at lease economically that is - given the fact they treat their minorities badly). Yeah, neighboring ex-yu countries don't like each other all that much - they were at war after all. And now they are quarreling over their borders. Time heals all wounds. I'm sure UK didn't like Germany at all 10 years after WW2.

Also - I find that your blog is not promoting understanding/tolerance all that well - given that you are traveling through those countries. Stuff like "Croatia kills 5 bears for pate every year" is total nonsense - or the fact that one idiot from a small private company thought it would be funny to put Hitler jokes on sugar packs and because of the selfless engagement of international media - now the whole country is associated with it.

And I find that Balkans is sometimes a term used by the media in a bad way - it turns out its not a geographical term any more (or any of these countries would not fit the profile), but a label for something in between "3rd-world" countries and the "western" world.

Should UK join the rest of us on the Balkans given the amount of racial scandals it had lately?

Cast not the first stone...

pusigabato said...

BALKAN BOY is not really a BALAKN BOY he is a CROAT BOY because of his opinion i smoe questions.He is an Englishman who is living for two years in Zagreb and has become Croat himself.HE IS NO INDIPENDANT in his opinion and he is always against SERBIA and SERBS.Very strange.

Thinking Croat said...

Pusigato you're even more dumb than he is...

I won't explain why. Or maybe I should?

Well..he lacks knowledge and some basic facts about the Balkans, Kosovo and Serbia in general, but not because he lived in Croatia and was "turned against the Serbs"...but because he's not from here, he's a foreigner. A man has to be very intelligent and educated to fully understand our situation and history. He's just average Joe who has failed to do that.

Nothing tragic in that really...



And you anonymous...don't be hypocrite...who cares if the people on the west use Balkan in more than just a geo-sense...in a cultural or policital...we're the only ones to be blamed.

We use terms like Africa, Zimbabwe or Tungusia(region in Rusia) (Croats most famous..literal tranlation "World's asshole")....

Neither is political Correct..so what

Anonymous said...

Kosovo must be free and it will be. That is for sure! It is funny say that Kosovo will not get independet. It is the same situation like before 16 years when Serbian begin a war because Serbia didn't give independet Croatia, Slovenia and BiH. KOSOVO WILL BE FREE AND THAT IS FOR SURE!!! AMEN!

Owen said...

Well, yes, I confess to being a foreigner but I do understand the notion of national sovereignty, and I understand that the country formerly known as "Yugoslavia" - if you like to put it in the way the ICJ did - "failed to prevent genocide" in Bosnia and fortunately wasn't allowed to "fail to prevent genocide" again in Kosova.

There seem to be quite a few opponents of Milosevic around who tell us about their unhappiness at the way he and his system/associates treated them while finding excuses for the way he treated other people. Perhaps that's one reason why Yugoslavia ended up as Former and national sovereignty is not the same as it used to be.

Thinking Croat said...

Kosovo will never be taken away from Serbia and officially recognised as no one can take away teritory from a sovereign nation unless the nation gives it up itself. And Serbs won't do that. For sure. Nor will that pass UN Security Council.

So Albanians can just dream about that. They may however get some form of independence, illegal under USA supervision but then we'll have another war the moment US supervision stops or the Serbs develop more closely relations to USA.

They will return what's their, and I can't blame them.

We did that in 1995, when we crushed rebbelion in so called "republic of serbian krajina".

Thinking Croat said...

Owen,Milosevic is gone, has been gone for 7 years now. Could have been gone even earlier if Albanians participated in Serbian political system. They *refused* to do that, and started querrilla war for *independance*.

Both sides share equal quilt of starting the conflict.
Counting victims is blasfemy, and while it's clear that there are more Albanian victims in this war, does that means Serbia's teritory should be taken away?

In ww2 albanians commited similar crimes to Serbs...yet there were no expelled from Kosovo.

The whole point is Serbia has been demoratic country, more or less for past 7 years..going steadily forward while Kosovo under UN administration is going no where.

No progress there concerning human right and economy not to mention.

The only acceptable solution is not delayed independance for Kosovo but the oposite...delayed sovereinty for Serbia...time for both sides to cool down, to establish normal relationshps, to establish Kosovo instutions for both Serbs and albanians.

You do realise Serbia wall erect a wall around Kosovo?

Kosovo has no eletrical supllies of its own, and many other things. It just can't function alone with 2 million people of whom only few have some expertise, and most of them are doing drugs trafficinc, sex, cigarattes etc.

Ed said...

Thinking Croat,

I shan't try and address everypoint you have made since it seems you have two aims in all of them:

1. To speak out against Kosovan independence by portraying the Albanians as being responsible for what happened to them.

2. To give the impression that Owen and myself are fools who have no right to speak about the Balkans.

Your first aim is negated by the bias you show. Look at your final assertion that the majority of Kosova Albanians traffic women, take drugs and smuggle cigarettes. If you think that the majority of Kosovans do this then you have shown that you yourself have no right to speak about the subject since you evidently know so little about it.

Your second issue, whereby you wish to dismiss everything Owen and myself say is equally flawed. You resort to calling me 'dumb' and criticise us for being foreigners. Let me ask you, do you think that people who are experts on Ancient Egypt or Ancient Rome must be Egyptians and Romans themselves? Of course not.

I can not speak for Owen, other than to say that if you look at his contributions to debates they are always well measured, well researched and well ballanced. You may think that I am not an expert, and fine, I agree, I am not an expert. I am an enthusiast though, and moreover I am also a student of the region. I study Serbian and Croatian language and East European studies at the School of Slavonic and East Euopean Studies at University College London. I try to read as much about the region as possible, both fiction and non-fiction and as you realise, I have lived in Croatia for two years and travelled the whole region. So no, I might not be an expert, but I am more than qualified to speak on the subject.

Ed.

John said...

1. I was saying against so called independance because it's not independance in any way. Albanians have their home nation for almost 100 years. WodrowWilson and the self-determination of the peope-era is gone. That was in the 1920s...Albanins got they state before...and in Kosovo there were only cca 30% Albaninas at the time. they became mjority by migrating from Albania (which has under hard-communist rule..China related..not USSR) and with high fertlity rates over the last century have overpopulated one serbian province.

In the process they got sufficient autonomy, more than Scotland and Wales had until few years ago...and their nations are way older and its their "soil".

I said it, it wasn't enough for them, they started uprisings as soon Tito died.. This reaction led to rising of serb nationalism..perfectly expectable.

In the events that occured niether side can be considered "rightfull"..saying anything that that is total bias.

You are biased and that's a fact.
Your continued use of the term "Kosova" reflects that.



2. I never called you dumb but you do lack comprehension skills if you lived here for more than 2 years and you know the language and still think like that.

I can understand someone like Owen..Balkan is to him like Scandinavia for me...I know little about it.


3. Criminal on the Kosovo is also a fact. You implies "majority"...not me. A big portion of population is doing crime. In normal countries you have 1%, there you have maybe 20%. That's not majority but it's unnormally high percentage.

And this argument has nothing to do with pro-con independance, noone is so stupid to think the crime will stopp if they get independance or not...the point was here how unefective UN administration is in those circumstances...just think what it would like there if they aren't present.

Thinking Croat said...

1. I was saying against so called independance because it's not independance in any way. Albanians have their home nation for almost 100 years. WodrowWilson and the self-determination of the peope-era is gone. That was in the 1920s...Albanins got they state before...and in Kosovo there were only cca 30% Albaninas at the time. they became mjority by migrating from Albania (which has under hard-communist rule..China related..not USSR) and with high fertlity rates over the last century have overpopulated one serbian province.

In the process they got sufficient autonomy, more than Scotland and Wales had until few years ago...and their nations are way older and its their "soil".

I said it, it wasn't enough for them, they started uprisings as soon Tito died.. This reaction led to rising of serb nationalism..perfectly expectable.

In the events that occured niether side can be considered "rightfull"..saying anything that that is total bias.

You are biased and that's a fact.
Your continued use of the term "Kosova" reflects that.



2. I never called you dumb but you do lack comprehension skills if you lived here for more than 2 years and you know the language and still think like that.

I can understand someone like Owen..Balkan is to him like Scandinavia for me...I know little about it.


3. Criminal on the Kosovo is also a fact. You implies "majority"...not me. A big portion of population is doing crime. In normal countries you have 1%, there you have maybe 20%. That's not majority but it's unnormally high percentage.

And this argument has nothing to do with pro-con independance, noone is so stupid to think the crime will stopp if they get independance or not...the point was here how unefective UN administration is in those circumstances...just think what it would like there if they aren't present.

observer said...

I'm confused... Is John 'thinking Croat'? Or was there some sort of technical problem?

Thinking Croat said...

I am not John..so problems, yeah.

Novosađanka said...

So, I guess then there are no good reasons for being pro-independence, other than spending some time there, knowing something about the recent history ( let's say starting in 1999) and figuring that since Serbian government has been the culprit in so many previous wars ( and they have) - that the question of Kosovo can, through faulty logic, be equalized with what happened in Bosnia, Croatia etc.

Well, when even someone - who has no problem seeing how their own country acted in recent history and feels terrible shame although they were the first to loudly oppose it- tells you that you are not being objective, and your attitude is biased, I guess you should think about it if you really have the ambition to understand the inner dynamics of the region....As well, a lesson in history would be useful. Don't mean to be rude, but your take on the conflict just seems ill informed regardless of my own liberal views. Do you even know what was going on prior to 1999 or is this where the relevant history of Kosovo starts for you?

I see that the dates for actual visits to all these cities are set a year or so back, so I assume your trip finisihed a while ago. It would be good if foreigners traveling through the region attempted to learn it's history and fully understand it before passing judgement. Whatever it may be.

Owen said...

"They overpopulated a Serbian province"?

Ed said...

Novosadanka,

As you will see, the dates are from May last year, but I have other things I must do can't spend my whole time writing my blog, hence why I usually only mannage to update once a week.

Furthermore, I wasn't only in Kosova, my trip started in Croatia, then went into Bosnia, Serbia, Hungary, Romania, Moldova, Transdnistria, Serbia again, Bulgaria, Macedonia and Albania before reaching Kosova. It honestly is just a coincidence that I am at this point in typing up the story. And after Kosova I have plenty of other places such as Dalmatia, Bosnia, Croatia, Slovenia, Germany and several others too.

I find it strange that simply because we do not agree on the Kosova issue you have decided to try and dismiss me as a person. I have spoken very little about the actual conflict in Kosova, one of your main arguments against me. I have generally spoken about the time I spent there, and since I was not there during the 1990s or earlier it would be very hard for me to write a travelogue about that period.

If you would like to understand my reasons for supporting Kosovan independence then please go back and read previous posts. Frankly, I find it tiresom to repeat it over and over again, typing out the same lines of argument. I support Kosovan independence for the same alturistic reasons that many people support it. It is not a big part of my life, I mean, I don't speak Albanian and have no plans to live there. If I am to be pushed into declaring where I stand on the issue, an issue which is very important given the current events in the Balkans, I will indeed say what I believe.

Ed.

Ed said...

Owen,

Yea, those damn Albanians, deliberately breeding like rabbits just to beat the Serbs and bring about Jihad upon Christendom.

I jest.

Whilst one group may have a higher birth rate than another shows that some people within this debate really are clutching at straws.

I think I will stop commenting further on this post. I don't know about you, but for me it's becoming tiresome.

Take care,
Ed.

Owen said...

Ed, you deserve a break!

Novosađanka said...

It is perfectly OK to have an opinion, I was interested as to whether it was grounded in something other than emotion. You see, if it was based on emotion only, I would probably be bitter about Serbia losing a part of its territory. But emotion is not an argument, is not objective and more often than not, it has little to do with reality.

I did not dismiss you as a person, I don't even know you. I dismissed the possibility ( which I at first allowed) that you are knowledgeable about Kosovo history and have come to believe Kosovo should be independent after taking many different variables into account and understanding both sides in this conflict.This, obviously, is not the case. You believe this because, in your opinion, the rest of the altruistic world believes it, so it must be a correct thing to believe. You believe it because what you know dates back a few years, and granted- that is the period during which Serbian para-military forces committed atrocities ( it would be a good sign of objectivity to mention atrocities committed by Albanians, however you never made an attempt at it, which in light of everything else leads me to believe you're not even aware of it). Hence, I dismiss the possibility that you know why you're saying what you're saying, other than that you simply feel that way. And that's OK, I just expected a more well-rounded opinion.

Anyway, this will be my last reply.

Cheers.

Thinking Croat said...

Man, now I know you're just dumb.. you acused me of saying it to you before. Now I am really saying that to you.

BEcause of this:

"Yea, those damn Albanians, deliberately breeding like rabbits just to beat the Serbs and bring about Jihad upon Christendom"

1. You implied some anti-Serb or Anti-Chritian sentiments Albanians may have.

If you knew something you'd know that Albanians are both catholic,orthodox and muslim.

They didn't split on that level like Croats-catholics, Serbs-orhodox and Bosniaks (Muslims).

Religion is secondary to them, and even not even Islam, which normally puts religion above ethinicty, is more important to them than their ethnicity. It'sa fact, think of it what you wish.

I don't know why do want to make look bad or chauvinist because I only state facts, which you obviously don't know?


2. And the reason I mentioned their high fertilty rates, for decades the highes in Europe is just to get you some insight on how they became majority there. Or better to say that they became majority there in the last 50-100 years and instead of accepting the country they lived in they started rebbelion in every sense. Sometimes it was armed, soometimes only opstructing Serbia.
They became significant minorty in Macedonia as well and in 2001 they started armed conflicts there as well.
In am not saying that they should be egzild, after all many of them were now born there...but you don't understand that their society is much tribe-like...prearanged marrigaes, etc.

Not saying that this is majority, but things like this never happen in any euro-country. It's rather common among them..

All of the problems have there its source, and Serbia is very guilty for not doing much more in educating those people in the last century. But it's so hard since you don't have even core where to start...begin with.




Borders are fixed ever since ww2 in the whole World and don't change.

They certainly don't change because some nationaly minority has a majority on one part of the teritory of a soverign nation. And it acquired that only in the last 50-100 years.

In addition it's nowhere near to cases of Wales,Scots, Basks, all of them living their for centuries whitout having home-nation.

Albanians have one, and they haven't been on Kosovo for centuries.



I don't know what to say anymore.
Honestely you seem like a regular guy, but highly biased, I don't know why. Maybe b(c youlived here..I said it, croat nationalist are happy that serbs have problems with kosovo, but because the serbs did that to us, tried to take part of our country in which they were majority. They will never say Kosovo Albanians "have right" in this one.

But I don't care,bye.

You just keep writing Kosova nd that you're unbiased. :)..must have been a mighty lemonade and ice-cream you had there...

Ed said...

Thinking Croat,

That was not me being dumb, that was you not understanding sarcasm:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

Honestly, people like yourself need to find outlets. You waste away your time coming on people's blogs trying to have arguments just for the sake of being rude and insulting, because I expect you are too weak to be rude to anybody's face in your everyday life. In the blogging world this is called flaming:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaming

Ed.

Anonymous said...

thinking Croat you are a typical serb hiding behind that nick what you used to live in croatia and now your in serbia or maybe still in croatia but hide on the internet and abuse people. well step up chicken shit. Nikola Boban Trg Stjepana Radica Gospic Croatia. you now where i am now.

Anonymous said...

Albanians have majority in Kosovo always. Serbs are lying when they say Serbs had majority in Kosovo in 1900 or 1920. Official Yugoslav statistics show Kosovo had over 70 % majority in Kosovo.

Thinking croat(nationalist serb?) if you don`t like what ed is writing then just go away an read Serb brainwashing propaganda. No one is forcing you to visit this blog.

Anonymous said...

Wanted to say that Yogoslav official statistics show Albanians had over 70 % majority in Kosovo in the end of 19 century.

Nice blog ed

Anonymous said...

Thinking Croat is most probably not a Croat, but definitely is not a thinking one.

"Kosovo will never be taken away from Serbia.."

Pl-ease. Kosovo is already independent and you know it, Serb politicians in Vienna knew it and we all know it - including our bellowed "dumb" and "stupid" visitors as you “kindly” call ‘em (famous Balkan hospitality I guess)...
Serb politicians played their role in Vienna, they are "brave national heroes", “new Obilic’s” and now The Bad Devil called USA / UN / you-name-it will do its part and will recognize Kosovo. And it will become just another silly legend about good n noble Serbs betrayed by the West / Vatican / you-name-it again. And you Serbs were always good with legends; they are great mass poison, an excellent material when you need to prepare a nation to start slaughtering around once again.

rgrds from zagreb everyone

Anonymous said...

Anon from Zagreb,

Pozdravi iz Londona.

It does have a horrible duality doesn't it. I'm worried that this will become like a film sequal for the Serbs. First there was The Battle of Kosovo, now there is The Battle of Kosovo 2: Western Deceit.

I too had my suspicions about the person leaving comments as Thinking Croat. His comments didn't really fit with those I would have suspected from a person who would go so far as to call themselves a Croat. Now I shouldn't wish to go so far as to cast judgement on people or to try and say that they are certainly not what they say they are, but his comments were too inflamatory on a subject that most Croats are not especially worried by.

Anyway, enough speculating, I must sound like an old Baba!

Take care,
Ed.

Blackbird said...

What you sound like is a naive adolescent. With all this travel, one would think you would grow up and look with your eyes wide open. Not so.

As for Julia Gorin, she would bury you and Schwartz in any debate, any time, about the Balkans. Knowledge and the ability to think is what she has and something you, seemingly, have yet to acquire, along with life experience that might make you a little less clueless. Non-albanians will not only never be free in an independent Kosovo, they will always be in fear of their lives as they are now.

You might be well intentioned, as you imply over and over again, BUT you have a long way to go before you comprehend this situation. Maybe if you speak Serbian in an Albanian area where they haven't seen you before...maybe then it'll become clear to you. You can speak any language you want in Serbia and do whatever you like that is legal. Serbia is the ONLY part of the former Yugoslavia that is truly diverse and multi-cultural, which puts paid to the countless lies told about Serbia.

Once you have an independent Kosovo, you'll see how welcome the Brits and Americans will be there, once they don't need them anymore.

And tell me, how is Kosov(a) going to provide for its electricity? And which roads are they going to use to drive to Europe if Serbia closes off the roads that go through Serbia? That's exactly what Serbia should do with an independent Kosov(a)-- bar entry into Serbia to anyone from there and close the borders tight.

Independence to a narco-mafia supported state that traffics in human beings, where half the cars (stolen Mercedes from other parts of Europe) aren't registered and people drive them without licenses! Independence to the people who enable 80% of the heroin in Europe to be trafficked. Where new mosques are built daily with Saudi money, and Byzantine era churches are shat on after they are destroyed, where Muslim terrorists are allowed to train -- oh, yeah. That's just what Europe needs.

Owen said...

Ed, you're honoured. A Balkan blog isn't a Balkan blog without Blackbird turning up to curdle the cream. "Serbia is the ONLY part of the former Yugoslavia that is truly diverse and multi-cultural, which puts paid to the countless lies told about Serbia." Or alternatively confirms Serbia's achievements in the rest of the region.

Blackbird said...

Are you completely without any semblence of wit, Owen? How would Serbia's remaining multi-cultural and diverse (over 30 different nationalities have always and still today lived in Serbia) and Serbia's taking in countless refugees that were cleansed out of the other parts of the former Yugoslavia confirm "Serbia's achievements in the rest of the region"? It's the other areas that have ensured they are cleansed of everything but their "own kind". Croatia cleansed of all but Croats, Slovenia almost as bad, Bosnia is ethnically divided, Kosovo is almost completely ethnically Albanian and Albanians are now agitating in Macedonia and Montenegro. How the hell do you come up with that last statement unless you are complete moron?

Blackbird said...

Cream is it, Owen? Sh*t floats to the top, too, you know, and it looks like you're confusing the two -- much like you are mistaking (whether through complete ignorance or through malice) propaganda lies with the facts.

Ed said...

Blackbird,

You're interpersonal skills are somewhat lacking. Calling people names such as 'Moron' will rarely win you either friends or admiration, and shows that your only purpose here is to pick a fight. But that is besides the point.

The reason that the Balkans has many refugees is because Serbia began at least three wars. The reason Bosnia is divided is because Serbia began a war there. To try and say that Serbia is multi-ethnic because it has over 30 minorities living in it is just silly. Croatia, I know from my own experience, also has many small minorities. I met Italians, Belgiuns, Serbs, Roma, Argentinians and even a Uruguayan. I would not say this makes Croatia fully multi-ethnic, but it would certainly fit your standards. When will you realise that life isn't a huge competition where "my nation is better than your nation" is all that matters?

Ed.

Blackbird said...

I don't give a toss about your opinion of my interpersonal skills. You are LYING. What does that make you? I could go into all the evidence that proves you are lying, but what is the point when dealing with the willingly brainwashed. If you ever want to see some facts, just let me know.

As for Owen, I suppose the lack of even the most rudimentary logic in that ridiculous statement makes him a genious.

Anonymous said...

Blackbird you are the brainwashed one just reading serb propaganda.so the whole world is wrong and the serbs are right you people will never change you started the damn wars what dont you understand thats why serbia will stay a primitive backwater untill you admit to your sins.

Anonymous said...

by the way previous comment was mine. Nikola Boban Gospic

Blackbird said...

Is that so, now? We'll see.

Blackbird said...

For those whom the truth offends, be offended. Here's but one drop from the ocean of facts that you are conveniently ignoring and distorting for the promotion of your false agendas.

http://byzantinesacredart.com/blog

Ed said...

Nikola,

Certainly not all Serbs are primitive, but sadly many people hold this impression because the voices who shout loudest are those who are the primitive Serb nationalists whose sole agenda is to rewrite history: to try and tell the world that the Serbs didn't destroy Vukovar, that the Serbs didn't bomb Sarajevo, didn't kill the men and boys of Srebrenica and didn't do a single thing wrong in Kosova. With people like this, not just the pseudo-interlectuals like Blackbird but also high-ranking politicians, it is not suprising that many people do indeed see Serbia as primitive.

Take care,
Ed.

Ed said...

Blackbird,

False agendas? And the link you left for byzantinesacredart.com doesn't have an agenda!

I shan't bother commenting extensively on the content of that website, other than to say that it is one of the most biased collections of writings I've read in a long time.

Debate of issues is useful and beneficial for everyone, but I don't understand why you are unable toi manage it without being rude. It reflects so much more on you than it does on anybody that you criticise.

Ed.

Owen said...

Thanks, Blackbird, compliment taken, that was a nice thing to say for a change.

Blackbird said...

Ed,

I find it difficult to understand why your calling the whole nation of Serbia responsible for 3 wars when no such thing happened isn't "rude" in the extreme. And not only now, but for a decade and half. Is one not entitled to get fed up with self-congratulatory lying, with persons and media proceding blindly without any real research, without any intellectual curiosity about what might really have gone on and without, seemingly, any shred of capacity for analysis? Sure the website I posted has an agenda -- to counter the other agendas. It's high time and well overdue, and that website does it extremely well, by citing sources! If it was a slap in the face, so be it. You lot have been slapping the Serbian people in the face for decades. Enough is enough. You are not correct. I have solace now in the fact that more and more of the truth IS coming out, and this perverse fascination so many have for using Serbia as a whipping boy will pass as it becomes more and more obvious how absurd it has been.

So if I offend you, excuse me if my heart doesn't bleed. Persons with your stance have more than offended me - and for a very long time - but what is worst is that you offend the world and what you are helping it to become. If you don't think that it would be an ENORMOUS mistake to have an independent Albanian Kosovo then you are simply blind and deaf. This is critical to the futures of all our children, futures your position undermines. The Americans have no excuse either, but this is the second time time that the Brits have raped Serbia. It's unforgivable.

Blackbird said...

Owen,

OK. Whatever. Simple things amuse simple minds.

shocked ! said...

Regardless of all other issues...And I'm not comparing Serbia to other countries in the region here, that's beside the point. Whoever can allow themselves to make such an idiotic statement such as that Serbia is not multi-ethnic or, if it is , that it is on the account of the wars it picked, certainly has no knowledge whatsoever about the country they are so passionatly criticizing. Talk about pretend-intelectuals. Please. Your one-sided views are what gives you away.You have no desire to understand anything. You have a preconcieved notion and your fitting all additional views into it, even where they absolutely and obviously do not fit. Not to say some criticism isn't driving the point home, but really, after some things I've read here, I got to ask - do you people even know where Serbia is, for sure ????? Or are you just assuming? Ever heard of Vojvodina? Ever heard of how diverse this area is? And has been for the longest time, much before regugees started coming in? Please. I'm all for democracy, change and taking collective blame for everything our government did in the past decade. But when I hear such narrow-minded, amateur, malicious, subjective things like some that were said here, I want to throw up. It makes me sick that some noble, democratically oriented westerners, who some of us, in general, so frequently look at in despair and with a lot of hope for guidance and help, would dare judge on an issue they actually know so little about.

The world would indeed would be a better place if more people put on their thinking caps, instead of just simulating a thinking process.

Do your homework, then talk. The more you talk, the more uneducated you sound. It's almost unbeliveable that anyone claiming to have visited Serbia would be so clueless about the demographics and such basic things. Even the things you say that would make sense otherwise, are overshadowed by your tragic lack of self-education....

You managed to make me as enraged and disqusted as the damn nationalists that worked so passionately on creating a big Serbia and made us feel ashamed for things we personally did not do, and did everything in our power to stop.

Really, good job boys. You, and the likes of you, give westerners a really bad name. I guess people who think that "all westerners are dum" had a bad luck of meeting only people like you.

Blackbird said...

Having finally mentioned the word "debate," Ed, it would be nice if you actually did some. Your little list can be countered by crimes against Serbs in more than equal measure. And Srebrenica -- well, there's a debate if ever there was one. For one thing, nothing has EVER been proven there, and I can show you a lot of it has been manufactured. And, no, I'm not denying it carte blanche, but the story is far from what you have been spoon fed. The willingly brainwashed have difficulty comprehending facts. Have fun on your romp around the Balkans. You'll be able to go home feeling "good" having patted yourself on the back, knowing that while you condemn a site like the byzantine blog, you haven't got a word to counter anything stated on there, have you? It's so easy to hold opinions, so much harder to provide facts.

Blackbird said...

@shocked,

If any group was planning a greater anything, it was/is the Albanians planning a Greater Albania. They even had maps on the internet at one time. Perhaps I can still find it. I don't know even one Serb who wanted a Greater Serbia, unless you mean attaching Republica Srpska to Serbia, and if Kosovo gains independence, you can bet I'll be fighting for Republica Srpska to join Serbia and for California to join Mexico and for Scotland to secede. But then California and Scotland and Republica Srpska aren't shipping out mafiosis to London and New York, nor are they selling most of the Heroin in the world, nor are they promoting jihad.

shocked! said...

Blackbird. We all know Great Albania has been a wet dream of many people for a long time. That goes without saying. But I didn't want to go into that. I assume every thinking person who has even the slightest knowledge of history of the region would know their facts. On this blog maybe I am assuming too much, seeing how the conversation developed earlier.

On the other hand, one can not deny that certain prominent figures in Serbia have in fact planned for a Greater Serbia.I've seen it. I've heard it. I've heard people talk about it on my own street!!!!It was by no means the majority, it just happened to be mostly the minority in the position of power or dangerously close to it. I can not deny it. Although I would wish it wasn't so. I remember clearly, as if it were yesterday, it was 1996 and I was standing on the inter-municipal bus station in Belgrade going home from a meeting with Belgrade students, when a person carrying SRS political platform info booklets approached me. I took one. It was official SRS promo material. I still have it back home, that and a few other things as well.It was later distributed in front of the SRS head office in my home town.No scams. It was the real deal. On the back , there was a map of Serbia and surrounding countries, with Big Serba state lines drawn in black ink, containing several parts of other sovereign countries unrelated to former Yugoslavia. "Gde su srpske zemlje, tu su srpski radikali". That was written across the map, and at the bottom a promise was given that should SRS sieze power, this is how Serbia would look like within a few years, whatever it took. Well, I guess they wouldn't just go and say "pretty please, can we have this?".

And this was not an isolated case, I just gave the most blatant example. So, that to me is not even a matter for a debate.

Having said that, I completely agree with what the consequences of Kosovo independence will be. For Europe, for the States, for us even. It will be a disaster. And all those who do not believe it today will live to see, and then we can revisit the subject. However, I just can not see how Serbia could make sense of this check-mat situation any more. I can't. I am even going to go as far as to say that truly, we will be better off without Kosovo, forget the history and national pride and all. I truly believe this. In time, it will be. What is our future with Kosovo on our hands? Constant guerrilla wars? New para-military troops on both sides? More bloodshed? Commit genocide? Let them do that? What? Who in the hell is going to control that ticking bomb?

We can not argue over the fact that it is a territory of a sovereign country that is forcibly being taken away. But I want to look beyond that, because I don't see how it can be fixed. You have to know when to give up. We didn't do what needed to be done long time ago. We should not fail to do it once the independence happens and it will. Disallow purchasing property on Serbian soil for good. And it is already being purchased by hundreds.60 years from now, the same thing will happen.It is happening in Macedonia. It is happening elsewhere. I urge everyone who thinks I'm being too harsh, or too paranoid, or too whatever, to wait and see.

In any case, I agree with you on most points, I am a bit more moderate though. And I don't have the patience to keep explaining a few hundred years of history, politics and the need to look at all sides of the problem before passing judgment, to people above that obviously have no desire to understand anything other than what's been spoon-fed to them. I consider intellectual laziness the worst kind of vice. And on top of that, this is the topic I usually avoid. I was just provoked like hell by some ridiculous observations made here.

WARchild said...

Oh no, Serbia gets raped for the second time.

Owen said...

Blackbird, you don't seem to understand that as long as Serbians like yourself continue to tell the outside world that you still don't give a damn for what Serbia did and continue to drown out the voices of your decent right-minded fellow-countrymen and -women, the rest of us are going to find it very difficult to forget what we've seen and what we remember. And yes, we have heard your version of what happened, often enough.

Anonymous said...

blackbird its not up to you to speak about Scotland.

Let them speak for themselves... i dont think they have any wishes to secceede so what will you be exactly fighting for?

Blackbird said...

Owen,

It was Goebbels who said that if you tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth. That's the kind of truth you "know." Since you evidently don't know anything about what actually went on, how about shutting up until you do. Counter ONE fact or even an idea in that byzantine blog, for example, and then we'll talk. Or come up with any other fact or idea and state your case.

It was Mark Twain who said something to the effect of "better to keep your mouth closed and risk being thought a fool than opening it and removing all doubt" (I paraphrase). Take Mark Twain's advice. If all you can do is to regurgitate propaganda, without one original thought of your own, then you missed your moment in history. You'd have done well in Germany in the mid-thirties.

Blackbird said...

anonymous,

There have been decades of talk about Scotland seceding. If I have no right to talk about Scotland then does that mean that the Brits here have no right to talk about Serbia?

In any case, Scotland is a different matter to Kosovo. The only way Scotland would be analogous to Kosovo is if, just for argument's sake, the Irish (no offense to them, it's a geographical thing) moved into Scotland en masse from Ireland, then pushed out the Scots and forced them to go into England, and then the Irish declared themselves the majority in Scotland and pled mistreatment on the part of Scots and English, and demanded independence from the United Kingdom. Also, you'd have to have a Scottish mafia operating all over the world and terrorists would have to be allowed to flourish in Scotland as they do in Kosovo. THEN you'd have a more similar situation to Kosovo, so, you're right, Scotland isn't the same thing. I was making a different point.

Ed said...

Blackbird,

You tell Owen to stop regurgitating propoganda... but as far as I can tell this is all you have been doing, and all that Byzantine blog and Serbiana seem to do.

Ed.

Ed said...

Blackbird,

I enjoy the way that you tell people such as Owen and myself that because we are British we have no right to criticise Serbia since the British Empire did so many terrible things. Explain to me, how do I relate to the British Empire? Have I ever mentioned it? Have I ever defended it?

Don't presume that because I am British/English it means that I will defend everything that my government does... no, that is what you and other Serbian nationalists do with regards to the actions of you malicious and blood spattered Milosevic regieme.

I would never defend the British slave trade or more recently British errors in Iraq, but this does not mean I a hate Britain. In the same way, it should be possible for you to like/love Serbia without trying to find a defence for the indefensible.

Ed.

Blackbird said...

Be specific, Ed. What exactly are you referring to that is propaganda? Let's talk issues just for a change.

Here's a different website. Perhaps this is one that can make you think.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=21&ItemID=12321

Blackbird said...

"I enjoy the way that you tell people such as Owen and myself that because we are British we have no right to criticise Serbia since the British Empire did so many terrible things. Explain to me, how do I relate to the British Empire? Have I ever mentioned it? Have I ever defended it?"

Read what I said again and to whom I was saying it. I did not say what you are claiming.

"Don't presume that because I am British/English it means that I will defend everything that my government does... no, that is what you and other Serbian nationalists do with regards to the actions of you malicious and blood spattered Milosevic regieme."

Not true. You are in fact presuming things about me. I have always supported prosecuting every war criminal, from whichever side, to the full extent of the law and my statements to that effect can be found on all kinds of websites. Serbia has, in fact, prosecuted many Serbs -- I don't believe Croatia can say the same, nor Bosnia about their war criminals who are held up like heroes (Naser Oric is a case in point.)

This kind ad hominem attack just shows me how falsely you come to your conclusions. I am not a nationalist, I am of very mixed heritage, and I'd like to know what civil wars are determined by playing chess. Croatia's Tudjman and Bosnia's Izetbegovic wanted war. They wanted war and people died -- in Bosnia they cut the heads of Serbs, just like in Iraq, but then Muslims have been cutting the heads off Serbs for hundreds of years. Are you surprised that Serbs could not accept living in an illegally seceded state where they would be ruled over by either Muslims or, as in Croatia, by a follower of the same principles that resulted in 600,000 - 700,000 beastially murdered Serbs, Jews and Roma during WWII at Jasenovac? And I don't see you mentioning the ethnic expulsion and murders of hundreds of thousands of Serbs from the Krajina (do you even know why Serbs lived in the Krajina and for how long?)

"I would never defend the British slave trade or more recently British errors in Iraq, but this does not mean I a hate Britain. In the same way, it should be possible for you to like/love Serbia without trying to find a defence for the indefensible."

So it's just old British transgressions that you won't defend. Who knows how you would have behaved if these things were done during your time. After all, you defend, by inference if nothing else, Britain's indefensible attack on a sovereign nation that was no threat to Britain. You defend Britain's phony humanitarian war. You defend the narco-mafia state that that war created in Kosovo. You stand by accusations against Milosevic and Serbia that not even the Hague Tribunal can claim to be true after 4 years and millions and millions of dollars devoted to proving those trumped up charges (and it is most interesting how Milosevic was "allowed to die" just before the Srebrenica phase of his trial, and after he had demolished all the previous accusations against him -- nothing had been proven because the charges were baseless). And you have no objections, apparently, to the secessions of the former Yugoslav states (with strong encouragement from Germany, Britain and the U.S.) in an illegal manner, when there was a legal procedure that existed in Yugoslavia FOR secession that could have been followed. The point is that WAR is what those secessioning states wanted or they could have seceded peaceably.

I have always promoted the idea that Milosevic should have been tried, but in Serbia. He was guilty of some things, but most of them were transgressions against the Serbian people, things that he did as an aparchnik of the party that that creep Tito had installed in Yugoslavia -- with Britain's help, by the way. Milosevic did not commit genocide, nor ethnic cleansing. You have a lot more research to do, my lad, instead of relying on heresay.

Blackbird said...

The website I gave didn't show up in its entirety on the comment -- it was cut off. Here it is in two parts which go together without any spaces.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?
SectionID=21&ItemID=12321

Blackbird said...

clarification re my comment on Krajina, which doesn't read right;

the ethnic expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Serbs and the murders of many who were too old or too weak to run

Ed said...

Blackbird,

I shall no longer reply to you further after this, it's a waste of my time. You honestly show such poor taste.

"The point is that WAR is what those secessioning states wanted or they could have seceded peaceably."

Yes, I like Kosova, it's a great place, but it is Croatia that I love. When I read your silly comment, especially the part I have quoted above, it made me think of Vukovar, and the sadness I felt when I visited the city. I'm not talking about politicians here, Tudman made some terrible decissions, but the people of Vukovar never wanted a war, they never wanted their town to be bombed to the ground and they never wanted to die. Next you will tell me that the joint joint JNA and Tigers masacre of injured people and medical staff from Vukovar hospital never happened.

I've had enough of you. Honestly, I'm sorry for you.

Ed.

Anonymous said...

Blackbird yiu are one sick person go get help .honestly Croatia Bosnia ect wanted war it is people like you I fought against I fought with many Serbs who defended the land their anscestors have called home for centuries. We took great pride in ridding the earth of sick scum like you,and we will not hesitate in doing so again if need be. Nikola Boban Gospic

Owen said...

Blackbird, there's no pleasure in reading your angry tirades and the hate-filled comments that cram them but your anger seems genuine, unlike the specious sophistry of some of your more malign countryfolk, so I'm sorry for whatever lies behind it.

Blackbird said...

What lies behind my anger and frustration is people like you and Ed, because you have no idea, in your self-satisfied little world, how ignorant, how misinformed you are, how limited your information is. You have this neat little package of "how things went," all tied up with a shiny little ribbon, and you no longer have to think about it, right?

You see, I am not blaming one side, which you are doing. That makes you naive and/or ignorant if not malicious (and I don't think you are malicious, just misguided).

I know all those places you've been going to -- well. And how did I see Serbs being treated way back in the 80s and 90s in Slovenia and Croatia? Like untermenschen. Something that I never saw any Croat, Slovene or what-have-you endure in Serbia.

But of course you love Croatia -- had you had a Serbian girlfriend first, you'd have fallen in love with Serbia. We all know how it works.

And Croatia has a beautiful coast, so what's not to love? Oh, perhaps the Hitler sugar packets? Indicative of something, aren't they?

I used to have an enormous love for Montenegro, but since the Montenegrins sold themselves to the highest bidder, I mourn for what Montenegro used to be. It's only a matter of time for Montenegro...

Waste of time is right. You never answered a single point except for mentioning Vukovar. Yes, Vukovar was a damned shame. None of that should have gone on but your blaming one side only, AGAIN, is pathetic. There were so many more players in the Balkan wars than you will ever imagine. Even when the war in Bosnia could have been stopped cold, this:

"...the war in Bosnia was caused by the US ambassador Warren Zimmerman's last-minute intervention to persuade the Bosnian Muslim leader Alija Izetbegovic to renege from the 1992 Lisbon agreement, which provided for the peaceful division of the republic...

Read the whole article at
http://neilclark66.blogspot.com/

I think, Ed, that you are a bit concerned about how sturdy your beliefs are. They have been somewhat shaken and you wouldn't like to give up your certainty in some things that might not be exactly as you like to think about them. You're worried that I, or someone like me, might persuade you scrutinize your beliefa and then you'd find out about how wrong you have been all along, or at the very least, how not so completely right. Wouldn't that be disconcerting! Your "package" might no longer look so pretty. That's the real reason you're backing off.

One final word: Knowledge really IS power, so is keeping people from having certain knowledge. My interest lies in spreading knowledge, not hiding it. There justice lies, or it might have a chance anyway...

There's a lot I could tell you that you don't know, that you don't want to find out. But if you listen, really listen with an open mind you might see that the truth will find you on your travels. I haven't seen much sign of that open mind (although there is some pretense of it) on your blog. Work on it. I think you can get there.

Owen said...

Blackbird, the problem is that we don't see your open mind. As I said before, that's why we argue against you. Not because we don't believe that individual Serbs and Serbians weren't mistreated and abused but because your insistence on their suffering appears to whitewash everything else.

pusigabato said...

Thinking Croat hvala na objasnjenju i msilim da se odlicno nosis sa ovim retardom od engleza koji vodi ovaj odvratni blog....Srecno!

Ed said...

Pusigabato,

If I'm such a retard, and if my blog is so aweful, why do you bother reading it and leaving comments here?

Oh, that's right, you're some sort of freedom fighter standing up against the evil English guy whose being employed by the Albanian mafia, the Catholic Church and Ante Gotovina on a mission to cleanse the world of Serbs, because us English folk, all of us living in stately homes, just hate Serbs, we can't stand you.

Why do you make such an issue of me being English? I can't understand that. Have you not notticed that there are other nationalities who also dislike your primitive 19th Century brand of Serbian nationalism.

Ed.

observer said...

Ed,

Ignore these clowns making personal attacks - the profound ignorance evident in their observations makes a mockery of the 19th century agendas which they are attempting to advance.

Attempts to paint all of Serbia’s neighbors as being (without exception) fascist are farcical – and suggest that people like 'Blackbird' haven’t spent any amount of time in Croatia recently or bothered to talk with members of minority communities who reside in Croatia. Also, the Democratic Party and Čedo’s Liberal Democrats are also two examples of the fact that these commentators are increasingly out of touch with forces for change in Serbia as well.

Some of the facts that have been omitted by the likes of Blackbird illustrate the fact that Croatia is now becoming an increasingly diverse country. For example, Croatia is now processing large numbers of work permits and asylum requests from all parts of the world, from the Far East to Africa...

Not only that, it should be noted that a Sudanese refugee was granted asylum just last year signaling the beginning of Croatia’s acceptance of its international obligations regarding refugee conventions. Many more asylum applicants will soon find the door open to becoming full Croatian citizens.

Others might note Pupovac is a member of Croatia’s governing coalition… But, unfortunately these developments are ignored by the likes of some of the more narrow minded commentators on this post as they do not fit within their pre-conceived bigoted images of Serbia’s neighbors...

There is still a lot of progress to be made in Croatia, but that should not eclipse the fact that Croatia has made a lot of progress since 1999.

Ed said...

Observer,

Thanks for voicing some reason. I've notticed on some of these silly (I can't think of a better adjective) Serbian nationalist websites how Croats and Albanians are depicted as fascists, and Bosnians and other Albanians are shown as being Jihadists who have all gone for tea with Osama bin Laden at some point. The desire to mislead through distortion is incredible... I know this for a fact since I can say that the overwhelming majority of Croats who I shared two years of my life with gave no impression of having any fascist tendencies.

YOu know what I'm saying, so I don't know what I'm explaining myself because those who don't agree with this will not have their stone minds swayed whatsoever.

Take care,
Ed.

Blackbird said...

Owen,

There is such an overwhelmingly huge amount of propaganda and demonization against Serbs that there is no point in being mamby pamby about fighting that. Who's going to even notice? And don't tell me you would, because I know you wouldn't -- I've seen how that goes. It takes a forceful counter attack from the few people that are even allowed to be heard or published to counter such an orchestrated worldwide campaign that every intellectual deadbeat and every goody twoshoes, who wants to "feel" like a good person, has fallen right into (it's so much easier than thinking for one's self). Besides there is plenty of vociferous and malicious accusation from the Croats, Albanians and Bosnians and nobody ever calls them on it except those of us who have the whole picture and we're still in the minority -- a steadily growing minority, but nevertheless a minority. I never see someone like Ed making any remarks about the atrocities commited by his beloved Croatians or Kosovo Albanians for instance. I think that before one accuses someone like me of being one sided that person should take a long hard look at himself. Anyone perusing this blog knows in the first 3 seconds what a biased position Ed holds, but anyone perusing this blog also can see immediately that Ed thinks he's really "fair" because he makes token remarks about this or that to do with individual Serbs. He approaches everything from his own preconceptions. I was so shocked at the disolution of Yugoslavia that I made sure to look at everything I could, and I still do, to come to informed opinion, not just what is popular or easy.

You don't like the byzantine blog and you've dismissed it, I think, but it would actually be an edifying experience to read through a lot of it, and through Julia's blog -- although there are many others, too, but these you are now familiar with -- and then see how firm your opinions are, when you've learned something more.

Ed said...

Blackbird,

Okay, I'm glad you're now keeping your remarks and criticism civil, I feel like it might be worth engaging here. Or at least I hope.

You say that I never critise Albania, and only add token remarks about Serbs. Read this post. In it I have brought to light an unpleasent man who thinks he is Adolf Hitler, while commenting on the Serbian people I met and saying how charming I found them. I think I also went on to say how I hoped a solution can be found for the Mitrovica Serbs because they should not be made to feel thsat they must leave when Kosova becomes independent.

Earlier in my blog I think you will find I was also fair with my judgement of Croatian society. If you were reading this blog around the time when Ante Gotovina was captured you will see that I was very pleased with this and showed nothing but disdain for the Croats who were so blindly supportive of him.

I can not remember everything I have written, but it also springs to mind the fact that I have been critical of Franjo Tudman in the past, criticising much that he did. And let's not get started on Jasenovac!

So, as you like to say: Facts. Before you write something about somebody, do the research.

Ed.

Blackbird said...

Well, the only thing I need from life is your approval, Ed. After all how uncivilized is it to not speak gently and sweetly about a whole nation being destroyed deliberately and with malice and little men backpacking it around the Balkans feelling like big guys, pontificating on a blog and feeling superior? I'll make sure to have such conversations as might come up about the Albanians' and Croatians' goal of eradicating all Serbs only over tea, with my pinky crooked.

I only started writing here after reading your posting on the Hitler cafe. That was hardly critical! That's what you call critical? Amused is more like it. Athough I agree whole heartedly with your comment about yourself in that posting -- you ARE confused. Very.

Blackbird said...

and Bingo! nailed again:

http://grayfalcon.blogspot.com/

pusigabato said...

he he BALKAN BABY ume citati srpski (hrvatski).Pa sta ako se ne slazem sa retardom koji pise ove gluposti?Vazno je i da se cuje drugo misljenje zar ne?Ili si ti BALKAN BOY neka vrsta Titoiste kod koga ako ne mislis jednako onda si protiv?Stvarno si smesna osoba.....Sto je najgore cak je neki topic sa ovog sm(ij)esnog sajta i citiran u jednom beogradskom listu (BLIC) o nekom lokalnom hitleru iz Hrvatske (he he).
Dobar je ovo sajt kad bi bio nepristrasan ali ovo je sajt jednog lazljivog engleza koji senama svima ovde predstavlja kao BALKAN BABY a ustvari je jako pristrasan i na strani he hrvatske ideje uredjenja Balkana.Iz tog razloga je ovaj sajt retardiran a ne zato sto je sam autor retard.Inace smesno mi je kako se vi svi ovde ubiste objasnjavajuci da li je on u pravu ili ne i to na vasem bednom engleskom jeziku.Pricajte na hrvatsko srpskom (srpskohrvatskom) jer on sve to razume ili ima dobrog druga hrvata koji mu to sve prevodi i svi zadovoljni.

Owen said...

Blackbird, do you understand why it appears no-one listens to you? Ed holds out an olive-branch - you stuff it back in his eye. And that's par for the course. Who on earth do you think wants to listen to people who don't show the slightest desire to listen to anyone else.

There are two aspects to demonisation - the reality and the appearance. The reality is that Serbia perpetrated atrocities. The reality is also that some Serbs were the victims of atrocities. I listen to the stories of the commander who took over at Foca and threatened to shoot the men who wanted to rape the ransomed girls one more time before they left and the VRS officer who reported the slaughter at the Koricenje cliffs and I know that there are Serbs who can tell the difference between right and wrong.

But then I hear your screaming and ranting, and more significantly the devious misinformation planted by people who are more deliberate in what they're doing, and the shortage of evidence that Serbians as a whole understand or are sorry for what was done in their name more than ten years ago.

The appearance is something else. If you think I am demonising Serbs, I apologise. What's actually happening is that I'm just switching off, I'm trying to preserve my hearing for something worth listening to. Something real that's told to me in a calm voice that doesn't insist on denying everything else.

pusigabato said...

Dragi Ede
Znamo mi svi ovde o vasem primitivnom engleskom nacionalizmu koji ste primenjivali na jadnim Ircima.Bogami dobro ste ih potamanili.Niste vi englezi neki rasadnik demokratije nego ste rasadnik najgorih ratova, kolonijalizma i najgori ste genocidan narod na svetu.Pogledajte samo vasu istoriju.Mislis da vasa moderna istorija demokratije pocinje sada nedavno a da ono sto ste radili kroz vekove puj pike ne vazi?SMESNI EDE (FUNNY CROAT BOY ED) ako mislis da je ovde najcrnji primitivizamnacionalnog tipa STO SI DOSAO OVDE?Dosao si da opet sejes mrznju izmedju dva naroda iako se sada koliko toliko sredilo?

Anonymous said...

Owen
You say,
"Something real that's told to me in a calm voice that doesn't insist on denying everything else."

From what I see, whatever real was said here in a calm voice that does not insist on denying anything else, was blatantly IGNORED by both you and Ed.

So no, don't go explaining now that this is why you appear to be demonising Serbs. That's exactly what you're doing, otherwise you would pay some, minimal at least, attention to balanced comments.

Instead, both you and Ed seem to respond only to those agree with you 100% or when you are being insulted.

Anyway, don't start paying attention now, to prove a point. The real demonstration of objectivity should have happened some 126 replies ago.

Blackbird said...

From http://grayfalcon.blogspot.com

"Mr. Alexander has a sizable chip on his shoulder, believing himself to be a member of some vast righteous majority - or, in his terms, "those of us who want the Balkans to progress, to admit its wrongs as to display its wonderful culture in the best possible way," while painting those who disagree with him as "nationalist Serbs, Serbs who had been duped by what they read in Kurir and a handful of American Bushites."

Just so. This is the way I see Ed, too.

If there is one thing that Nebojsa Malic, author of the gray falcon blog, is NOT, it's a nationalist - in any sense. Nor is Julia Gorin a nationalist -- and of what would she be a nationalist anyway? Point to one thing that she has written that isn't true. Go on, just one.

Nor am I a nationalist and anyone who accuses me of such a thing is a bigotted fool.

I don't tolerate nationalists of any kind. That is why I don't tolerate Ed. He professes to want a mulit-cultural Kosovo where the minorities would be safe while supporting an independent Kosovo as if it isn't as clear as a spring day what that means! Safe! An independent Kosovo will be a completely pure Albanian state. It is already virtually 100% Albanian without being independent. The Kosovo Albanians have outbred, harrassed and terrorized Serbs out of their own land. Serbian families for many decades have not been safe there and for the sake of their children many have left before 1999 -- pushed out. Since the late 90s they have been under direct attack by the KLA, even those Albanians that didn't agree with the KLA were threatened or attacked. Nobody dared to contradict the KLA, it was more than their lives were worth. Serbia was faced with a Muslim insurrection, planned by those who wanted a Greater Albania, and supported by the CIA, Osama Bin Laden, and the Albanian diaspora, especially in New York where massive numbers of powerful weapons were purchased and sent to Kosovo, although some weapons came from Albania, too. The Albanians bought American politicians for their support and hired a PR company to spread their propaganda. This was a plain and simple land grab and the KLA wanted to get rid of all Serbs in Kosovo, which they have effectively now accomplished with help from such "democratic" countries as the US, Germany and Britain. And like it or not, the takeover of Kosovo by the Albanians IS Hitler's dream fulfilled.

Anybody who can support Ceku, Thaci and Haradinaj cannot regard himself in all honesty as any kind of humanitarian. I cannot have anything but contempt for the person who finds them legitimate "leaders" in Kosovo. You would condemn Mladic without a second thought, without looking at what preceded Srebrenica and who was involved, but you give carte blanche to Albanian and Croatian murderers.

Serbs on trial at the Hague die, one after another, while in custody, and monsters like Naser Oric are released. Haradinaj is taken into custody but his "people" make sure there are no witnesses left alive to testify against him.

I fervently hope that both Mladic and Karadzic will be tried. I also believe that the only reason they haven't been yet is that there is cynical game being played. All the while that Carla demands they be handed over but doesn't get them the west can use that over the head of Serbia for why Serbia is held back. If Mladic and Karadzic were ever to show up in court Carla would panic. I'd love to see them there and have the truth come out from their own lips. Of course, the chances are that they would "die" there first or never get their day in court like Seselj who handed himself over just to stew there for years. It's a travesty of justice that Milosevic wasn't allowed his Srebrenica phase of the trial, but was "allowed", or more to the point, strongly encouraged to die. What a sigh of relief that was! Destroying myths created by the west about battles they assisted in bringing about is more than Carla wants to let out. It's more than her job's worth.

Owen said...

Grotesque noise machine.

Anonymous said...

blacbird is like a broken machine.

He still wont answer my question why Scotland deserve indepedence.

The scottish are not complaining but blackbird is complaining for them and will fight for their indepedence.

What a joke he is!!

Blackbird said...

my dear anonymous:

If you don't know that Scotland has often made noises about independence then you don't follow world news. It was just one example I could have given and I chose it because of its proximity to England, naturally, since the blogger is a Brit (although a Croat at heart). I already referred to your question about that in a previous comment -- I guess you missed it. Perhaps you miss a lot of things.

I, however, won't miss this indefensible blog run by backers of jihad, murderers, ethnic cleansers and psychopaths, and calling THAT some kind of justice, blithely impressing the ignorant that black is white and night is day.

Go ahead and make another simpering remark about me; by all means just make sure you don't read in any detail anything I've posted because then you'd be in danger of learning something.

Owen said...

Anonymous, there's a reasonable chance of the Scottish National Party being elected some day and their ultimate platform is (democratic) independence. I find it difficult however to imagine that the rest of the UK will attempt to "cleanse" Borders and Dumfries and Galloway of their non-English population and slaughter the men and boys of Selkirk.

Anonymous said...

You have the analogy completely backwards. Blackbird made a much mre appropriate comparison when bringing Scotland into the discussion as an illustration. Your comment is based on a misunderstanding of both what happened with Kosovo and what he said about Scotland. It seems to me that all this bad blood on this blog lately is because you just don't read with any level of comprehnesion.

Ed said...

Anon,

I totally agree with you.

Take care,
Ed.

Owen said...

2nd Anonymous, I understood the analogy as being with Former Yugoslavia (and Srebrenica). Fortunately in spite of terrible things being done in Kosova, thanks to the belated lessons of Bosnia the situation never got as far there.

Anonymous said...

No I don't think it had anything to do with Srebrenica.

It was pointing out the difference between a Kosovo secession and a Scottish one. In fact the only way that they would relate to each other (because they are so different) is if it went thus. Blackbird was making a point that you would feel differently if the same thing happened to the UK with Scotland (even though it won't actualy be the same) that happened to Serbia, as in if

Scotland = Kosovo
Irish = Alabanians
England = Serbia


Hypothetical. Get it? So if Scotland were gradually taken over by the Irish who also pushed out the native Scots into England (both Scots and English are British as the Kosovo Serbs are Serbian) and forced them to go into England through various means, such as much larger birth rates and harassment and then the Irish who were dominant now in Scotland decided to take over completely. They declare that they are mistreated by Britain and they want independence.

Maybe you can't understand because you don't have that kind of background. Things in the Balkans have been very different than in the British Isles. You missed a point being made by Blackbird. I think because you didn't acknowledge the initial premise, which is that the Kosovo Albanians took Kosovo by force, not just population. But, also, the whole thing was orchestrated in order to take over Kosovo.

For one thing every westerner believes the BS told by Clinton, Clarke, Holbrooke, etc., that the Kosovo Albanians were forced out at the time of the bombing. Maybe they were, but not by the Serbs. There are copies of leaflets on red paper that were circulated everywhere at that time instructing all the Albanians to leave for the Macedonian border and those leaflets were printed by the KLA for political effect of such a massive exodus. I know someone who has an originl one, picked up at the time and the leaflets were discussed at the Milosevic trial.

In any case, the exodus occurred after the bombing began, not before, but it was after the fact used as justification for bombing as though the bombing came later. (Note that many of the Kosovo Albanians ran to Serbia proper, not Macedonia, which would be very odd if they had any reason to be frightened of Serbs). That exodus or ethic cleansing story is not true. Also, Racak was a false reason given to bomb. A staged affair. These were both untrue yet are believed widely and taken as fact.

None of you in the west have any idea what really went on in Kosovo or the extreme tolerance that Serbs showed to Albanians. In many instances Albanians had more benefits than Serbs themselves. for example, every place of work had to have a quota of Albanians equal to the percentage of Albanians in the population, even at the expense of Serbian employment. I can only compare that situation to someone who has a house and takes in a family that has nothing and gives them shelter and food and even medical treatment and then the visitors stay on and on and become part of the family but decide to take the house over and kick out the original owner. I have no illusions that you will see it that way, but that, in fact, is what happened in Kosovo.

Anonymous said...

Interesting. Happened upon this just now. Many more comments there but this one coincidentally gives another twist to this Scotland thing.

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/
simon_tisdall/2007/03/
balkans_on_the_brink.html#comment-478843

Owen said...

We've seen quite a lot of the extreme tolerance that certain Serbs pride themselves on showing. The way people talk informs the way we listen to them.

Ed said...

Owen, Anon,

Whilst I did have a bit of a dark smile when I read Owen's description of what might happen in Scotland if the same rules were to apply, I think the lesson we've learned from all this is that making analogies doesn't really work when they concern Kosova.

Take care,
Ed.

AP said...

Just take a "listen" to the tolerance Albanians/Muslims have shown Serbs, or the British, etc., have shown. Very tolerant. Must be very much in the eye of the beholder, what? Pining for your fascist past, killing nuns and the police in Kosovo, killing your own people in Bosnia for political gain, and then scrambling to call yourselves the victims ever more by making sure the Serbs are demonized is so highly tolerant. And supporting US-led bombing is very tolerant. Supporting documents at Rambouillet that no Serb in his right mind could possibly sign so as to ensure that your threat of bombing would happen, that's very tolerant. Keeping up the lies is very tolerant. Expecting frustrated Serbs who are forced every day to deal with demonization and lies is highly tolerant, indeed. But then you are so much better than the Serbs, so superior, and so condescending in your smug self-assurance that you know what's what that you can just clamp down on what you have CHOSEN to believe and not worry about the actual facts. Yes, so, so tolerant. Indeed. Indeed. Expelling every non-miltary protected non-Albanian from Kosovo and forcing those remaining to live in fear of their lives regardless, desecrating countless byzantine era churches and peeing and shitting in their burned remains as you proudly photograph the "event", destroying Serbian hundred year old graves, all this is, I must say, very tolerant. What a very nice bunch! It's even nicer how I see you conversing here in complete generalities and never discussing any actual points raised. Must be because you are so tolerant, can't have anything to do with you not having any counter points to raise. Can't be anything to do with not wanting to have to admit you're wrong because you are so tolerant. You are so nice, so tolerant that you can just gloss over anything that doesn't fit the model in your head and spit on the rest. That we must respect, such tolerance. Cherry picking what you choose to view as truth makes you so tolerant that we can only look up to you in all your glorious tolerance and trust not be burned by the radiation of your shining tolerance.

Anonymous said...

Report damns West's revival of Kosovo

By Bojan Pancevski, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 11:45pm GMT 17/03/2007

A confidential study warns that Kosovo faces a violent and chaotic future after the failure of nation-building efforts by the international community.

The study, commissioned by the German government, accused Western governments, including Britain, of the "ostrich politics" of denial and found that Kosovo faced a decline into "violent riots and even revolution-like development" after the expected declaration of independence.

It claimed that the United Nations administration and the Nato-led peacekeeping mission had been infiltrated by organised crime syndicates, and accused the international bodies of mismanagement, corruption and organisational chaos.
Talks on the future of Kosovo ended in stalemate last week and have been referred to the UN Security Council, which is expected to grant limited independence according to a proposal drafted by Martti Ahtisaari, the former Finnish president.

Britain was widely regarded as the driving force behind the 1999 Nato air strikes against the regime of Slobodan Milosevic, the former Serbian president, which led to the separation of the province, with its majority Albanian population, from the Serbian state. Since then, Kosovo has been a UN-administered protectorate secured by an international military presence.

But a study by the Institute for European Politics, a Berlin think-tank, says the severely impoverished territory has little prospect of democratic progress because the building of a functioning multi-ethnic society has failed and does not exist "outside the bureaucratic phrases of the international community". The study describes the European Union's security strategy for an independent Kosovo as flawed. The authors accuse Nato and the UN of creating a culture of systematic repression of critical reports in order to present Kosovo as a success story.

The study claimed the population's belief in the advantages of independence was pushing expectations for economic prosperity to unrealistic heights. This would eventually cause a backlash and a confrontation with the international administration.

A spokesman for the Kosovo Force (KFor), the Nato-led international unit responsible for establishing and maintaining security, said: "We are aware of the study and the allegations made in it regarding KFor but we will not comment on them. The situation in Kosovo is not stable but we have a clear mission and we are sticking to it."

The authorities in Belgrade have offered Kosovo home rule and wide-ranging autonomy but have refused to accept the creation of a sovereign state, arguing that it would set a dangerous precedent and further destabilise the region.

For their part, Kosovo's Albanian leaders are not willing to engage in any kind of union with Serbia and maintain that full independence is the only possible solution.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/
news/2007/03/18/wkosovo18.xml

Anonymous said...

KOSOVO albananian???
Even the name is not albananan!
But DALMAZZIA IS definitely ITALIAN.
RITTORNIARAMO!!!

gunfan said...
This post has been removed by the author.
gunfan said...

Ed, you're honoured. A Balkan blog isn't a Balkan blog without Blackbird turning up to curdle the cream. "Serbia is the ONLY part of the former Yugoslavia that is truly diverse and multi-cultural, which puts paid to the countless lies told about Serbia." Or alternatively confirms Serbia's achievements in the rest of the region.

So let me get this straight, Owen, you're suggesting that Serbia's master plan to create a 'Greater ethnically pure Serbia' backfired when the people they were actively eradicating fled into the teeth of the genocidal monsters responsible?

Had only the Jews been so crafty.....

And you wonder why your intelligence is question?

Anonymous said...

If you are interested in the Balkans read my book and visit my blog http://travelswithmyfrontlinefamily.blogspot.com/
It's an account of family life in a war zone.

Anonymous said...

Ed, the episode in Hitler's café is just hilarious! Made even more so by the flirtatious nationalist waitress. You should have paid 'Hitler' the 5 euro.

About independence (or not) for Kosovo. I the end, I don't see how or why Serbia would want to or even could keep Kosovo as a part of the country. Not even as an autonomous region. Give Kosovo independence and get on with life!

However, given that that 16,000 or so Nato soldiers haven't been able to defend the province's Serbs, I don't see how they could be expected to feel safe in an independent Kosovo. The only solution is to give them northern Kosovo, for the intl. community to pay for any required relocation and then let that part join Serbia. Heck, it would probably even be cheaper to move entire monasteries in the south to the north than to keep soldiers in place indefinately.

On a similar principle, if the Bosnian serbs still don't want to be part of Bosnia 20 years from now I don't see how the intl. community can force them. Though the geographical contortions of that would be more difficult.

pusigabato said...

You are still trying to "say the truth" to this croatian reatard? He is an anti serbian lobyst so you can do nothing but reeding his nonsense .....

Sandra I. said...

Um, to the anonymous person who said it's better to move monasteries to the southern part of serbia, is a complete imbecile. If you knew anything you would know that in serbian/orthodox religion it is highly disrespectful to move/adjust a monastery that has been in Kosovo for thousands and thousands of years. You people don't understand how good it feels to be in one of the ancient churches in Kosovo, until you experience it yourselves. On the other subject Kosovo should remain a part of Serbia. It has been serbian for thousands of years, since it was taken away by the ottoman empire. Serbia deserves Kosovo, and in my opinion if Kosovo goes to the albanians or gains independance that will be the start of world war 3. Russia,China,North Korea, and all the other communist/socialist countries in the world will form an alliance against the US. Quebec will definately gain their independance from Canada. Parts of spain,mexico and other countries from all around the world will fall apart. To simply give Kosovo independance and mark it as an albanian province is simply prepostrous. Serbia has all the rights to keep Kosovo. Russia has already claimed a Veto, when that veto expires China is ready.

Tom Jones said...

Clueless young snot-nose.
There's so much going on here that
you are not able to see. Maybe you'll get shot.

Anonymous said...

>>> So your statement about Serbs "building a church there just to aggravate Albanians" is ridiciculous, given that even place's name refers to it being "church land". Perhaps this this is at least one reason why Julia Gorin referred to you as "clueless"!

It was made Church land by stealing it from the natives (today's Albanians.) Your land is in Russia, where you came from, if you really want to get cute.

Google this thief:
"The monastery at Decani stands on a terrace commanding passes into High Albania. When Stefan Uros III founded it in 1330, he gave it many villages in the plain and catuns of Vlachs and Albanians between the Lim and the Beli Drim. Vlachs and Albanians had to carry salt for the monastery and provide it with serf labour.17 A large number of churches were sited strategically at Prizren and in 1348 Dusan is recorded as giving Albanian catuns to a monastery there. Metohija in fact was a great monastic estate."

Paul Hitter said...

hi,
i invite you all to visit my Balkan Painting Blog. I am a mixed ethnic: austrian-hungarian-romanian, and i created a new painting stream, wich i call : Balkan Expressionism.
Here is the link : http://www.paulhitter.blogspot.com

thank you all!

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lpcyusa said...

##

#What It’s Like to Chill with the Most Ruthless Men in the World
Ratko Mladic and Radovan Karadzic:
Confessions of a Female War Crimes Investigator


Retrospectively, it was all so simple, natural and matter of fact being on a boat restaurant in Belgrade, sitting with, laughing, drinking a two hundred bottle of wine and chatting about war and peace while Ratko Mladic held my hand. Mladic, a man considered the world’s most ruthless war criminal since Adolf Hitler, still at large and currently having a five million dollar bounty on his head for genocide by the international community. Yet there I was with my two best friends at the time, a former Serbian diplomat, his wife, and Ratko Mladic just chilling. There was no security, nothing you’d ordinarily expect in such circumstances. Referring to himself merely as, Sharko; this is the story of it all came about.

http://sites.google.com/site/jillstarrsite/what-it-s-like-to-chill-with-the-most-ruthless-men-in-the-world-ratko-mladic-and-radovan-karadzic-confessions-of-a-female-war-crimes-investigator

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